Buddhism cult

An open and inclusive investigation into Buddhism and spiritual cultivation
ignobleone
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Re: Buddhism cult

Postby ignobleone » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:21 pm

nibbuti wrote:
ignobleone wrote:Sorry, I have decided not to argue with non-buddhist.

No problem, friend. What is true & beneficial (Dhamma) can be seen by the wise for oneself w/o argueing, denomination or personality view (sakkāya-diṭṭhi).

:meditate:

The problem is, non-buddhist cannot see the Dhamma, let alone becomes wise because of Dhamma.
The reason I replied to your first comment is because I don't get why a non-buddhist tries to correct a buddhist. It just doesn't make any sense.

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acinteyyo
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Re: Buddhism cult

Postby acinteyyo » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:32 pm

ignobleone wrote:
nibbuti wrote:
ignobleone wrote:Sorry, I have decided not to argue with non-buddhist.

No problem, friend. What is true & beneficial (Dhamma) can be seen by the wise for oneself w/o argueing, denomination or personality view (sakkāya-diṭṭhi).

:meditate:

The problem is, non-buddhist cannot see the Dhamma, let alone becomes wise because of Dhamma.
The reason I replied to your first comment is because I don't get why a non-buddhist tries to correct a buddhist. It just doesn't make any sense.

You don't neet do be a buddhist to be able to see the Dhamma.
Pubbe cāhaṃ bhikkhave, etarahi ca dukkhañceva paññāpemi, dukkhassa ca nirodhaṃ. (M.22)
Api cāhaṃ, āvuso, imasmiṃyeva byāmamatte kaḷevare, sasaññimhi samanake lokañca paññāpemi lokasamudayañca lokanirodhañca lokanirodhagāminiñca paṭipadan. (AN4.45)

:anjali:

ignobleone
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Re: Buddhism cult

Postby ignobleone » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:53 pm

acinteyyo wrote:
ignobleone wrote:The problem is, non-buddhist cannot see the Dhamma, let alone becomes wise because of Dhamma.
The reason I replied to your first comment is because I don't get why a non-buddhist tries to correct a buddhist. It just doesn't make any sense.

You don't neet do be a buddhist to be able to see the Dhamma.

Dhamma includes everything. Simple Dhamma is easy to see by anyone, but higher level, sublime Dhamma is not easy and not for everyone.

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Aloka
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Re: Buddhism cult

Postby Aloka » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:11 pm

ignobleone wrote:Dhamma includes everything. Simple Dhamma is easy to see by anyone, but higher level, sublime Dhamma is not easy and not for everyone.


So do you consider that you understand "higher level, sublime Dhamma" yourself, ignobleone ?

.

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acinteyyo
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Re: Buddhism cult

Postby acinteyyo » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:22 pm

ignobleone wrote:
acinteyyo wrote:
ignobleone wrote:The problem is, non-buddhist cannot see the Dhamma, let alone becomes wise because of Dhamma.
The reason I replied to your first comment is because I don't get why a non-buddhist tries to correct a buddhist. It just doesn't make any sense.

You don't neet do be a buddhist to be able to see the Dhamma.

Dhamma includes everything. Simple Dhamma is easy to see by anyone, but higher level, sublime Dhamma is not easy and not for everyone.

This may be so, but being a "buddhist" is not a required condition to see higher Dhamma. I would say Mr. Gotama himself wasn't a "buddhist"...
Pubbe cāhaṃ bhikkhave, etarahi ca dukkhañceva paññāpemi, dukkhassa ca nirodhaṃ. (M.22)
Api cāhaṃ, āvuso, imasmiṃyeva byāmamatte kaḷevare, sasaññimhi samanake lokañca paññāpemi lokasamudayañca lokanirodhañca lokanirodhagāminiñca paṭipadan. (AN4.45)

:anjali:

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retrofuturist
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Re: Buddhism cult

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:39 pm

Greetings,

ignobleone wrote:Simple Dhamma is easy to see by anyone, but higher level, sublime Dhamma is not easy and not for everyone.

Oooh... be careful. That's how "Buddhist" cults start!

:rofl:

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)

ignobleone
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Re: Buddhism cult

Postby ignobleone » Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:33 pm

Aloka wrote:
ignobleone wrote:Dhamma includes everything. Simple Dhamma is easy to see by anyone, but higher level, sublime Dhamma is not easy and not for everyone.


So do you consider that you understand "higher level, sublime Dhamma" yourself, ignobleone ?

.

I never mean to say so. It's just for an information. Ehipassiko or just leave it.

ignobleone
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Re: Buddhism cult

Postby ignobleone » Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:37 pm

acinteyyo wrote:
ignobleone wrote:Dhamma includes everything. Simple Dhamma is easy to see by anyone, but higher level, sublime Dhamma is not easy and not for everyone.

This may be so, but being a "buddhist" is not a required condition to see higher Dhamma. I would say Mr. Gotama himself wasn't a "buddhist"...

buddhists = have sadha, non-buddhists = don't have
buddhist = Buddha follower, Mr. Gotama = follows himself? Please give me a break!

ignobleone
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Re: Buddhism cult

Postby ignobleone » Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:38 pm

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,

ignobleone wrote:Simple Dhamma is easy to see by anyone, but higher level, sublime Dhamma is not easy and not for everyone.

Oooh... be careful. That's how "Buddhist" cults start!

:rofl:

Metta,
Retro. :)

Also be careful you need to be able to recognize Buddhist cults.

:juggling:

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Cittasanto
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Re: Buddhism cult

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:45 pm

ignobleone wrote:
acinteyyo wrote:
ignobleone wrote:Dhamma includes everything. Simple Dhamma is easy to see by anyone, but higher level, sublime Dhamma is not easy and not for everyone.

This may be so, but being a "buddhist" is not a required condition to see higher Dhamma. I would say Mr. Gotama himself wasn't a "buddhist"...

buddhists = have sadha, non-buddhists = don't have
buddhist = Buddha follower, Mr. Gotama = follows himself? Please give me a break!

so a non-buddhist can not have faith that there is enlightenment, a way to enlightenment, and those who have practiced rightly so can declare that path? I think the Jain have faith, maybe from a Buddhist perspective in the wrong place but they have faith.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

ignobleone
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Re: Buddhism cult

Postby ignobleone » Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:03 pm

Cittasanto wrote:
ignobleone wrote:buddhists = have sadha, non-buddhists = don't have
buddhist = Buddha follower, Mr. Gotama = follows himself? Please give me a break!

so a non-buddhist can not have faith that there is enlightenment, a way to enlightenment, and those who have practiced rightly so can declare that path? I think the Jain have faith, maybe from a Buddhist perspective in the wrong place but they have faith.

Please differentiate between "can not have" and "don't have". "Don't have" doesn't mean "can not have".
In Buddhist context, 'faith' means faith in Tathagata.
Of course if you talk about Jainism, 'faith' means faith in Jainism.

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Cittasanto
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Re: Buddhism cult

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:22 pm

ignobleone wrote:
Cittasanto wrote:
ignobleone wrote:buddhists = have sadha, non-buddhists = don't have
buddhist = Buddha follower, Mr. Gotama = follows himself? Please give me a break!

so a non-buddhist can not have faith that there is enlightenment, a way to enlightenment, and those who have practiced rightly so can declare that path? I think the Jain have faith, maybe from a Buddhist perspective in the wrong place but they have faith.

Please differentiate between "can not have" and "don't have". "Don't have" doesn't mean "can not have".
In Buddhist context, 'faith' means faith in Tathagata.
Of course if you talk about Jainism, 'faith' means faith in Jainism.

That seams false!
it was a question in the guise of a statement, in other words there is more to faith than in one thing. The now underlined part above is a statement of faith both Buddhists and non-buddhist can have faith in. The Buddha had faith that enlightenment is possible BTW.
Last edited by David N. Snyder on Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: moderator note: posts relating to jhana have been moved to the great jhana debate
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."


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