Why I am not a Buddhist

An open and inclusive investigation into Buddhism and spiritual cultivation
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pilgrim
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Why I am not a Buddhist

Postby pilgrim » Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:57 pm

This very much describes why youths and the educated are leaving Buddhism in many parts of Asia, and partly why Theravada is increasingly appreciated.
http://warforscience.wordpress.com/2010 ... -buddhist/

Like to hear your comments..

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BubbaBuddhist
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Re: Why I am not a Buddhist

Postby BubbaBuddhist » Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:30 pm

How kamma is described seems more in line with the vedas than with the suttas. Interesting.

BB
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daverupa
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Re: Why I am not a Buddhist

Postby daverupa » Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:26 pm

The article didn't really talk about the Dhamma, did it? Just metaphysics and Malaysian pedagogical habits.
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

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DAWN
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Re: Why I am not a Buddhist

Postby DAWN » Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:49 pm

He left buddhism because he was to much attached to buddhism. Buddhism, not Dhamma. His practice was to much conditioned by some fantasy about an ideal buddhist. So when condition is broken, the practice is gone.

It's a good example of denger in attachement.
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english

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BubbaBuddhist
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Re: Why I am not a Buddhist

Postby BubbaBuddhist » Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:56 pm

Yes, he quit because of Buddhists, not because of Buddhism. :tongue: That's kind of like resigning from the human race because people suck.

BB
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LonesomeYogurt
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Re: Why I am not a Buddhist

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:30 pm

BubbaBuddhist wrote:That's kind of like resigning from the human race because people suck.


I tried that myself but housecats are surprisingly opposed to conversion.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.

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Kim OHara
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Re: Why I am not a Buddhist

Postby Kim OHara » Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:07 pm

Getting back to the topic ...
I sympathise with the blogger. If the only Buddhism I knew was the kind he describes, I would probably leave too, and for similar reasons.
And I don't think he exaggerates the problems, or not much. I don't know about Malaysia but I have seen and read about similar lay practices in SE Asia and China (look at the Kuan Yin thread here, for instance).
His decision parallels the way Westerners have drifted away from Christianity as science has undermined more and more of its doctrine.
Sincere, thoughtful Christians have been trying to work out a way for science and Christianity to co-exist ever since The Origin of Species was published. Buddhists are now working on the same issues.

:namaste:
Kim

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ground
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Re: Why I am not a Buddhist

Postby ground » Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:40 am

pilgrim wrote:This very much describes why youths and the educated are leaving Buddhism in many parts of Asia, and partly why Theravada is increasingly appreciated.
http://warforscience.wordpress.com/2010 ... -buddhist/

Like to hear your comments..

"I" is not "a buddhist", never has been and never will be. :sage:

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Re: Why I am not a Buddhist

Postby Digity » Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:43 am

I'm not a fan of Mahayana Buddism.
Samsara sucks. #samvega

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James the Giant
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Re: Why I am not a Buddhist

Postby James the Giant » Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:50 am

Digity wrote:I'm not a fan of Mahayana Buddism.

I have lots of Theravada friends from Thailand and Malaysia, and they pretty much believe the same things in the same way as that guy rebelled against. It's not just the Mahayana.
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11

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Ben
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Re: Why I am not a Buddhist

Postby Ben » Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:26 am

ground wrote:
pilgrim wrote:This very much describes why youths and the educated are leaving Buddhism in many parts of Asia, and partly why Theravada is increasingly appreciated.
http://warforscience.wordpress.com/2010 ... -buddhist/

Like to hear your comments..

"I" is not "a buddhist", never has been and never will be. :sage:


How can you possibly know that?
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR
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e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com

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tiltbillings
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Re: Why I am not a Buddhist

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:05 am

Ben wrote:
ground wrote:
pilgrim wrote:This very much describes why youths and the educated are leaving Buddhism in many parts of Asia, and partly why Theravada is increasingly appreciated.
http://warforscience.wordpress.com/2010 ... -buddhist/

Like to hear your comments..

"I" is not "a buddhist", never has been and never will be. :sage:


How can you possibly know that?
It is perfectly clear.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

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m0rl0ck
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Re: Why I am not a Buddhist

Postby m0rl0ck » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:19 am

All you have to do to ruin a good idea is add a little religion.
I can see how it might be tough to separate the baby from the bathwater. Westerners, i think have it easier in that respect because its often taught to us first more as philosophy than religion.
"When you meditate, don't send your mind outside. Don't fasten onto any knowledge at all. Whatever knowledge you've gained from books or teachers, don't bring it in to complicate things. Cut away all preoccupations, and then as you meditate let all your knowledge come from what's going on in the mind. When the mind is quiet, you'll know it for yourself. But you have to keep meditating a lot. When the time comes for things to develop, they'll develop on their own. Whatever you know, have it come from your own mind.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai ... eleft.html

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Ben
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Re: Why I am not a Buddhist

Postby Ben » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:52 am

Religion isn't always the bad guy.
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR
Buddhist Life Stories of Australia
e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com

Digity
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Re: Why I am not a Buddhist

Postby Digity » Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:43 pm

James the Giant wrote:
Digity wrote:I'm not a fan of Mahayana Buddism.

I have lots of Theravada friends from Thailand and Malaysia, and they pretty much believe the same things in the same way as that guy rebelled against. It's not just the Mahayana.

Fair enough. It just seems like it's more prevalent in Mahayana Buddhism. The first few Buddhist center I went to were Mahayana and I remember one of them talking about how we needed to pray more, because enlightenment was too hard...or something like that. I remember just thinking it was a silly comment and starting to sound too "religiousy". The Theravada teachings are way more in line with the Buddha's original teachings. I guess everyone needs to choose the path that suits them the most. I can't really say much else.
Samsara sucks. #samvega

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Re: Why I am not a Buddhist

Postby santa100 » Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:58 pm

pray/not pray, believe/not believe, Mahayana/Theravada, etc. at the end of the day, if one's practice helps them upholding the silas of not killing, stealing, sexual misconduct, lying, and indulgence, or if it helps one progressing further on the 8NP, then that's good practice. One word of advice I'd like to offer to that young fellow in the blog is to have some patience and a more thorough observation beyond the superficial rituals and forms of practice. If the praying/ritual part does make one become a filial son, a faithful husband, a responsible father, or a loyal friend, then isn't it a bit hasty (maybe even unfortunate) for those youths and educated to abandon Buddhism, be it Theravada or Mahayana?

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beeblebrox
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Re: Why I am not a Buddhist

Postby beeblebrox » Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:02 pm

Digity wrote:It just seems like it's more prevalent in Mahayana Buddhism. The first few Buddhist center I went to were Mahayana and I remember one of them talking about how we needed to pray more, because enlightenment was too hard...or something like that. I remember just thinking it was a silly comment and starting to sound too "religiousy". The Theravada teachings are way more in line with the Buddha's original teachings. I guess everyone needs to choose the path that suits them the most.


I think that's good you haven't encountered this in Theravada... but even then I hope that you'll still continue your practice. It's really the only thing that matters in the end.

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DAWN
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Re: Why I am not a Buddhist

Postby DAWN » Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:08 pm

ground wrote:
pilgrim wrote:This very much describes why youths and the educated are leaving Buddhism in many parts of Asia, and partly why Theravada is increasingly appreciated.
http://warforscience.wordpress.com/2010 ... -buddhist/

Like to hear your comments..

"I" is not "a buddhist", never has been and never will be. :sage:


If this "I" is conditioned by "a buddhist", it is.
If this "I" is conditioned by "The Dhamma", there is no "I".
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english

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DAWN
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Re: Why I am not a Buddhist

Postby DAWN » Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:15 pm

santa100 wrote:pray/not pray, believe/not believe, Mahayana/Theravada, etc.


Anyway we all practice the same meditation, we work with same fenomena, and we have all liberation like knowledge.

Form change, nature still.
About division of teachings
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english

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beeblebrox
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Re: Why I am not a Buddhist

Postby beeblebrox » Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:17 pm

DAWN wrote:
ground wrote:
pilgrim wrote:This very much describes why youths and the educated are leaving Buddhism in many parts of Asia, and partly why Theravada is increasingly appreciated.
http://warforscience.wordpress.com/2010 ... -buddhist/

Like to hear your comments..

"I" is not "a buddhist", never has been and never will be. :sage:


If this "I" is conditioned by "a buddhist", it is.
If this "I" is conditioned by "The Dhamma", there is no "I".


I think you're both right.


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