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Dhamma Wheel • View topic - Is there any levels of bad deeds

Is there any levels of bad deeds

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism

Re: Is there any levels of bad deeds

Postby CoreyNiles92 » Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:59 pm

Thank you, I couldn't have seen an explanation so profound on my own. I understand now. I shouldn't be so hasty to discredit anything before trying to understand.
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Re: Is there any levels of bad deeds

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:00 am

CoreyNiles92 wrote:Thank you, I couldn't have seen an explanation so profound on my own. I understand now. I shouldn't be so hasty to discredit anything before trying to understand.

It's also important to remember that intent is the driving force behind an action's moral value. The amount of hatred or delusion that a person would need to make them murder an arahant is far greater than the amount needed to kill an average person; an arahant is blameless, without fault, and thus only someone consumed with great, violent hate or incredible delusion could ever bring themselves to murder someone who was literally incapable of harming others.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.
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Re: Is there any levels of bad deeds

Postby C J » Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:18 am

CoreyNiles92 wrote:And enlightenment is freedom from Karma, you act morally righteous not intentionally, but naturally. Good deeds come about on their own, rather than by decision.

You could have 1,000 Positive Karmic seeds and 1,000 negative Karmic seeds. This won't put you into enlightenment smack in the middle, and it won't negate. You will have 1,000 experiences in life that will bring about positive or negative feelings based on the actions that created the seeds.



I don't believe that is true.
There are examples suggesting otherwise such as;

Buddha once had a headache. He related it to a kamma vipaka of a past life.
As "Cittasanto" pointed out earlier the case of Angulimala, he still had to suffer his bad deeds.
I can list more examples.

As I understand, enlightenment is not freedom from Karma. You still have to suffer even if you attained enlightenment.

As I understand enlightenment is a well developed mental state where you don't have lobha, dosa, moha (Three Fires: greed, hatred and delusion. http://www.buddhanet.net/budsas/ebud/ebdha102.htm).
Enlightenment is freedom from accumulating more bad kamma, not freedom from Karma.
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Re: Is there any levels of bad deeds

Postby C J » Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:51 am

As killing an arahat is much more worst than killing a layperson, it seems like development of the mind plays a big role in this context.

So killing a clever person should be worst than killing a dumb person.

So killing an human should be much more worst than killing an animal;
same way killing an animal of higher mental power (such as a monkey or an elephant) should be worst than killing an animal with a lower mental power (such as a worm, an ant or a mosquito).

And killing a clever monkey should be worst than killing a dumb monkey.

What do you think?
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Re: Is there any levels of bad deeds

Postby Mawkish1983 » Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:11 pm

It's not all about intelligence.
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Re: Is there any levels of bad deeds

Postby daverupa » Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:57 pm

Unconjecturable topics are unconjecturable.

AN 4.77

"The results of kamma is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it."
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: Is there any levels of bad deeds

Postby C J » Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:28 am

daverupa wrote:Unconjecturable topics are unconjecturable.

AN 4.77

"The results of kamma is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it."


Thank you for pointing out this.

But it says;
""The [precise working out of the] results of kamma..."
is an unconjecturable.

I'm not trying to understand precise working out of the results of kamma. I know it is not possible.

In Velaama Sutta, Buddha had pointed out levels of good deeds.
So I thought levels of bad deeds also may had pointed out in some sutta.

But it seems like it was not described in-depth compared to descriptions of good deeds.
I could not find any levels other than aanantariya and five precepts.
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Re: Is there any levels of bad deeds

Postby SarathW » Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:15 am

Hi everyone
There is a misconception that everything is happen due to past kamma. Buddha never said that. According to Buddhism all phenomena’s resulted from Niyamas. There are five Niyamas. (Utu,Bija,Kamma,Dhamma,Citta) Kamma is only one of them.
Please read page 261 of attached link



http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/buddh ... gsurw6.pdf
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