Why is Satipatthana emphasized over Anapanasati?

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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LonesomeYogurt
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Why is Satipatthana emphasized over Anapanasati?

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:49 pm

Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta


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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Why is Satipatthana emphasized over Anapanasati?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:03 pm

That's why a teacher should be taken to learn meditation. Learning from books is not the same thing at all. Reading Buddhadasa's books is not the same as practising under his guidance. So too with any other teacher or method. They each emphasise different things. The Satipatthana Sutta was taught to 1,000 monks, not all were contemplating the four elements — some were practising Ānāpānasati, asubha kammatthāna, or cemetery contemplations. It is a comprehensive discourse.

Follow the teacher that appeals to you, but both Mahasi Sayādaw and Buddhadasa are now dead, so better look for someone who is still living. If you have to practice on your own from reading books, progress will be slow and hesitant as your head is full of too many things at once.
• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

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mikenz66
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Re: Why is Satipatthana emphasized over Anapanasati?

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:31 am


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daverupa
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Re: Why is Satipatthana emphasized over Anapanasati?

Postby daverupa » Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:46 am

Following along with respect to the breadth of the Suttas, note that the gradual training describes that anapanasati et al are conducted as part of a daily satisampajanna regimen; you might profitably also ask why meditation tends to receive emphasis over this training, e.g. .

Modern living allows for amazing opportunities along these lines, ones that even the landed gentry of ancient India would have envied...

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Re: Why is Satipatthana emphasized over Anapanasati?

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:21 am


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daverupa
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Re: Why is Satipatthana emphasized over Anapanasati?

Postby daverupa » Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:09 am

It is, however, noteworthy that satipatthana, as such, does not figure prominently in the gradual training list.

It may indeed simply form half of the sati-sampajanna compound, but I see it as an emergent teaching; something that came to be taught as time went on, possibly during early systematization, possibly while the Buddha still taught.

Is there a list of those meditations which are said to fulfill satipatthana, e.g. anapanasati?

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Re: Why is Satipatthana emphasized over Anapanasati?

Postby pegembara » Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:55 am

Whether satipatthana or anapanasati is emphasized in the sutta, you will find teachings like these all over the sutta. You can call them whatever you like.

“Nāgita, when one dwells contemplating impermanence in the six bases of contact, revulsion towards contact is established; this is the outcome for him. When one dwell contemplating rise and fall in the five aggregates subject to clinging, revulsion towards clinging is established; this is the outcome for him.”

~ Aṅguttara-Nikāya, Book of the Fives, Sutta 30

“And what, bhikkhus, is the development of concentration which when developed and cultivated leads to the destruction of the taints? Here, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu dwells contemplating rise and fall in the five-aggregates subject to clinging: 'Such is materiality, such is the arising of materiality, such is the passing-away of materiality; such is feeling, such is the arising of feeling, such is the passing-away of feeling; such is perception, such is the arising of perception, such is the passing-away of perception; such are mental-formations, such is the arising of mental-formations, such is the passing-away of mental-formations; such is consciousness, such is the arising of consciousness, such is the passing-away of consciousness.' This, bhikkhus, is the development of concentration which when developed and cultivated leads to the destruction of the taints.”

~ Aṅguttara-Nikāya, Book of the Fours, Sutta 41

“The monk who has retired to a solitary abode and calmed his mind, who comprehends the Dhamma with insight, in him there arise a delight that transcends all human delights.

“Whenever he sees with insight the rise and fall of the aggregates, he is full of joy and happiness. To the discerning one this reflects the Deathless.”

~ Dhammapada 373-374

“Bhikkhus, materiality is impermanent. What is impermanent is suffering; what is suffering is non-self; what is non-self should be seen with right wisdom as it really is thus ‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self.’

“Feeling is impermanent… Perception is impermanent… Mental-formations are impermanent… Consciousness is impermanent. What is impermanent is suffering; what is suffering is non-self; what is non-self should be seen with right wisdom as it really is thus ‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self.’

“Seeing thus, bhikkhus, the instructed noble disciple has revulsion towards materiality, has revulsion towards feeling, has revulsion towards perception, has revulsion towards mental-formations, has revulsion towards consciousness. Having revulsion, he becomes dispassionate; Through dispassion [his mind] is liberated. When it is liberated there is the knowledge ‘It is liberated.’ He knows ‘Birth is exhausted, the holy life has been lived, what is to be done has been done, there is nothing more beyond this.”

~ Saṃyutta-Nikāya, Khandhasaṃyutta, Sutta 15

“Bhikkhus, visible-forms are impermanent. What is impermanent is suffering. What is suffering is non-self. What is non-self should be seen with right wisdom as it really is thus: ‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self.’

“Sounds are impermanent… Smells are impermanent… Tastes are impermanent… Tactile-objects are impermanent… Mind-objects are impermanent. What is impermanent is suffering. What is suffering is non-self. What is non-self should be seen with right wisdom as it really is thus: ‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self.’

“Seeing thus, bhikkhus, the instructed noble disciple has revulsion towards visible-forms, has revulsion towards sounds, has revulsion towards smells, has revulsion towards tastes, has revulsion towards tactile-objects, has revulsion towards mind-objects. Having revulsion, he becomes dispassionate; Through dispassion [his mind] is liberated. When it is liberated there is the knowledge ‘It is liberated.’ He knows ‘Birth is exhausted, the holy life has been lived, what is to be done has been done, there is nothing more beyond this.”

~ Saṃyutta-Nikāya, Saḷāyatanavagga, Saḷāyatanasaṃyutta, Sutta 4
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

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Re: Why is Satipatthana emphasized over Anapanasati?

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:35 am


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Re: Why is Satipatthana emphasized over Anapanasati?

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:45 am


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daverupa
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Re: Why is Satipatthana emphasized over Anapanasati?

Postby daverupa » Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:37 am


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Re: Why is Satipatthana emphasized over Anapanasati?

Postby Nyana » Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:59 am


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Re: Why is Satipatthana emphasized over Anapanasati?

Postby Dmytro » Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:39 pm



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Re: Why is Satipatthana emphasized over Anapanasati?

Postby Sylvester » Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:46 am


santa100
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Re: Why is Satipatthana emphasized over Anapanasati?

Postby santa100 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:15 am


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LonesomeYogurt
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Re: Why is Satipatthana emphasized over Anapanasati?

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:20 am

Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta


santa100
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Re: Why is Satipatthana emphasized over Anapanasati?

Postby santa100 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:29 am

And thus we can at least be sure that any kind of meditation that helps eliminate the Five Hindrances would be desirable and praised by the Buddha..

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LonesomeYogurt
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Re: Why is Satipatthana emphasized over Anapanasati?

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:39 am

Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta


santa100
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Re: Why is Satipatthana emphasized over Anapanasati?

Postby santa100 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:52 am

Of course abandoning the Five Hindrances is only the first important step. However, imho the ultimate form of meditation is whatever one that helps get the practitioner to the end goal. It could be jhana, dry-insight, etc..

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LonesomeYogurt
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Re: Why is Satipatthana emphasized over Anapanasati?

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:58 am

Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta


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tiltbillings
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Re: Why is Satipatthana emphasized over Anapanasati?

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:08 am



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