The doer/observer
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The doer/observer
I was just wondering whether or not once a person becomes the observer, they are still in control of where their life is going. When I make a decision, and follow through I choose the course of my life, but only when I let the doer take control, if I were the observer wouldn't I just sit there aimlessly?
Re: The doer/observer
...what?CoreyNiles92 wrote:once a person becomes the observer
- "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.
"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
Re: The doer/observer
Hi Corey
It appears to me that you have to understand the concept of Anatta, the most important of Buddhist teaching which separate it from all other religions. This does not mean to say that Buddhist reject other religions. There is no doer or observe in Buddhist teaching. Once you fully comprehend this without any doubt and eliminate ignorance you will attain Nirvana. Please read the following book. I read this book more than ten times to just to get a glimpse of this teaching. Please start reading from chapter 15 which will answer your question.
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/buddh ... gsurw6.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It appears to me that you have to understand the concept of Anatta, the most important of Buddhist teaching which separate it from all other religions. This does not mean to say that Buddhist reject other religions. There is no doer or observe in Buddhist teaching. Once you fully comprehend this without any doubt and eliminate ignorance you will attain Nirvana. Please read the following book. I read this book more than ten times to just to get a glimpse of this teaching. Please start reading from chapter 15 which will answer your question.
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/buddh ... gsurw6.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Re: The doer/observer
There is no observer - just a process of observation.CoreyNiles92 wrote:I was just wondering whether or not once a person becomes the observer, they are still in control of where their life is going. When I make a decision, and follow through I choose the course of my life, but only when I let the doer take control, if I were the observer wouldn't I just sit there aimlessly?
And no, you won't just sit around aimlessly. You'll live an informed life and not one which is dominated blind habitual reaction, craving and ignorance.
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Goofaholix
- Posts: 4030
- Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:49 am
- Location: New Zealand
Re: The doer/observer
Doing is a process, it does.
Observing is a process, it observes.
Becoming is a process, it becomes.
There is no you that "becomes" any of these processes.
Observing is a process, it observes.
Becoming is a process, it becomes.
There is no you that "becomes" any of these processes.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
- Polar Bear
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Re: The doer/observer
Just as a clarification, the 'it' in 'it' observes isn't anything, it is the same it in the phrase: it is rainingGoofaholix wrote:Doing is a process, it does.
Observing is a process, it observes.
Becoming is a process, it becomes.
There is no you that "becomes" any of these processes.
It is raining= there is rain
it observes= there is observing
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."
"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."
"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."
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Re: The doer/observer
My apologies, I'm reading a book called Brahm Meditation. There is some referencing to the doer and knower/observer in it, that got me confused.
"To understand this process, I
will now introduce the two halves of the mind: the knower
and the doer."
Is Brahm Meditation not a proper teaching of Buddhism? I'm kind of lost with it.
"To understand this process, I
will now introduce the two halves of the mind: the knower
and the doer."
Is Brahm Meditation not a proper teaching of Buddhism? I'm kind of lost with it.
Re: The doer/observer
Well, I fail to recall a relevant Sutta, but living instruction involves a broad range of referents and tools of various and varying usefulness.
For my part, I wonder where the description goes, as I'm unfamiliar with it. What is "this process"?
For my part, I wonder where the description goes, as I'm unfamiliar with it. What is "this process"?
- "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.
"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
Re: The doer/observer
From Ajahn Brahm's Mindfulness, Bliss, and Beyond:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el026.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
So basically Ven. Brahm used the expression within a specific context, dullness in meditation, also known as sloth and torpor, a "popular" hindrance among the Five Hindrances. The link below has helpful info. about the Five Hindrances and could be used as complementary reading along with Ajahn's book. It might help clarifying things for you..Dullness in meditation is the result of a tired mind, usually one that
has been overworking. Fighting that dullness makes you even more
exhausted. Resting allows the energy to return to the mind. To understand this process, I will now introduce the two halves of the mind: the
knower and the doer.The knower is the passive half of the mind that simply receives information. The doer is the active half that responds with
evaluating,thinking,and controlling.The knower and the doer share the
same source of mental energy. Thus, when you are doing a lot, when
you have a busy lifestyle and are struggling to get on, the doer consumes
most of your mental energy, leaving only a pittance for the knower.
When the knower is starved of mental energy you experience dullness
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el026.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: The doer/observer
Here's a link where Ajhan Brahm explains some of this in more detail:
http://www.dhammatalks.net/Books3/Ajahn ... ANATTA.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://what-buddha-said.net/library/Bud ... kh%C4%81ra" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Mike
http://www.dhammatalks.net/Books3/Ajahn ... ANATTA.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And I think that "the doer" is referring sankhara:'The knower' is usually called consciousness or citta (mind), which is what knows. That knowing is often seen to be the ultimate 'self'. ...
http://what-buddha-said.net/library/Bud ... kh%C4%81ra" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
II sankhāra also means sometimes 'intentional effort', e.g. in the formula of the roads to power iddhi-pāda, in sasankhāra and asankhāra-parinibbāyī see: anāgāmī, and in the Abhidhamma terms asankhārika and sasankhārika-citta i.e. without effort = spontaneously, and with effort = prompted.
Mike
- Goofaholix
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Re: The doer/observer
Good clarification, in many ways self view is caused by the language we use.polarbuddha101 wrote: it observes= there is observing
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
Re: The doer/observer
Hi CoreyNiles92,CoreyNiles92 wrote:I was just wondering whether or not once a person becomes the observer, they are still in control of where their life is going. When I make a decision, and follow through I choose the course of my life, but only when I let the doer take control, if I were the observer wouldn't I just sit there aimlessly?
There is no person.No observer or doer.There is only observing and doing.
This existence is like one big Verb..eating,sitting,walking,thinking,wanting,hating,etc..
because there is suffering there is wanting to be free from suffering....everything is in the PRESENT TENSE..which is why it ends with an -ing. All your memories from the past,thoughts and plans in the future they are all in the PRESENT.Your are not actually traveling back in time or the future your experiencing them NOW in your Mind.
There is no person.All there is in an Action which contributes to the Process!and Everything is a Process Conditioned by the Process Before It.Skillfull actions is what you need to do in the present moment not sit aimlessly and observe.
Life is preparing for Death
Re: The doer/observer
I think the course of your life would be more determined by what is appropriate to circumstance + ripening of past actions.CoreyNiles92 wrote:I was just wondering whether or not once a person becomes the observer, they are still in control of where their life is going. When I make a decision, and follow through I choose the course of my life, but only when I let the doer take control, if I were the observer wouldn't I just sit there aimlessly?
Re: The doer/observer
The attachd link may further help to clarify this question:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .niza.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .niza.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Re: The doer/observer
No. "I" always has aims, maybe fluctuating and momentary but there are always impulses to do this or that which are affirmed.CoreyNiles92 wrote:... if I were the observer wouldn't I just sit there aimlessly?