Respect for the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Ben
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Respect for the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha

Post by Ben »

Hi all

On another thread, I mused recently about how the Buddha, Buddhism, and I guess Buddhists, seem to be the targets of dispariagement by way of jokes, novelty items or as a form of prosetylization by christian zealots. The comment I made was in response to an episode ;ast Sunday of Rove, a variety program in Australia, which when portrayed a comedy sketch on the topic of karma, made a dispariaging remark about the Buddha. This evening, I found this news item: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009 ... ion=justin" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The plastic figurine of the seated, grinning Buddha had upset monks from an eighth century temple in the ancient capital of Nara.
They complained that the statuette had an inappropriately large bulge between its legs.
The brief story goes on to say that the figurine was pulled from sale.

A couple of years ago, I remember reading about a clothing manufacturer who made ladies thong underwear with a Buddha printed on it and an Australian beer manufacturer who bottled their beer in Buddha (Hotei) shaped bottles.

I sometimes think that it an artefact of living in samsara, the profound and the profane changing places. But I wonder why the same people don't have the balls to make underwear with the veiled image of Mohammad printed on the front or statuetes of mohammad with a hard-on.
Maybe I'm just overly sensitive, cranky or both.
What do you think?

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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Ceisiwr
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Re: Respect for the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha

Post by Ceisiwr »

I think these things are unavoidable now in our present age with free speech and free expression etc. In relation to these things I think we should just keep in mind the Buddhas adivce not to get angry or sad when people make fun or criticise him or the Dhamma the same way we shouldnt be delighted when people praise him or the Dhamma


Metta
“The teacher willed that this world appear to me
as impermanent, unstable, insubstantial.
Mind, let me leap into the victor’s teaching,
carry me over the great flood, so hard to pass.”
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Prasadachitta
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Re: Respect for the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha

Post by Prasadachitta »

Hi Ben,

I think it is a positive sign that there are those who feel its no problem to create disrespectful images of the Buddha. Do you think that it is unlikely we will find a Mohammad with an erection because of the wide spread reverence people have for him or because they fear the scorn and possible retribution that will result. I think people at some level know that Buddhist strive to cultivate a peaceful and tolerant attitude and so they are not as concerned about offending us.


Metta

Gabriel
"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332
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Guy
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Re: Respect for the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha

Post by Guy »

If anyone wants to disparage the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha that is their problem. They have to deal with the consequences of expressing their disrespect for the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha. If we, identifying ourselves as Buddhists, get offended and angry at their remarks then that is our problem.

Why get upset? Why make problems?

With Metta,

Guy
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1) Giving; expecting nothing back in return
2) Throwing things away
3) Contentment; wanting to be here, not wanting to be anywhere else
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Jechbi
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Re: Respect for the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha

Post by Jechbi »

Hi Ben,
Ben wrote:Maybe I'm just overly sensitive, cranky or both.
What do you think?
I think it's a matter of appropriate sensitivity, and I suspect that's where you're coming from. The folks who make and/or sell those kinds of products apparently are not taking into consideration the religious sensitivities of those who might revere the Buddha in a possessive kind of way. That sort of reverence is going to occur, even if it's not the ideal. So why create a product to egg them on and make things worse?

The issue here is strangers communicating with each other, sending potentially powerful messages to others without knowing the effect of that communication. In a way, this merchandise is like a journalism product, broadcasting a message of jocularity about the Buddha. Some Buddhists won't be offended, some will. Of course the problem is not with the merchandise itself, but with the relationship between the retailer and the consumer. They don't necessarily know each other personally, so they make all kinds of potentially wrong assumptions about each other. We can't really know the retailer's intent. We can assume it's infused with ignorance, in the same way that we all continue to suffer under the yoke of ignorance.

If you ever have an opportunity to get to know one of the retailers personally, that might be a chance to bridge the gap and explain why production and sale of merchandise like that could have an unintended harmful effect. I don't think there's anything wrong with making an informed, polite protest. In any circumstance, though, equanimity is called for. In my opinion.

Metta
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
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genkaku
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Re: Respect for the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha

Post by genkaku »

Hi Ben -- I think your practice is important.
I think your opinions, like mine, are less important.

Whether people run around turning a shard of bone into an object of veneration or a pair of underpants an object of dismay; whether they call their views the one true way or disparage the views of others as heretical or apostate ... when has it ever been different? Veneration is bound to generate disagreement.

Best to leave veneration and disagreement to others and just keep up your own good practice. As Gautama allegedly said, "It is not what others do and do not do that is my concern. It is what I do and do not do -- that is my concern."

Yeah, we all get cranky from time to time. Nothing saying we can't or won't ... sometimes it's downright fun...or anyway I think so. But also ... just keep up the good practice.
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DNS
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Re: Respect for the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha

Post by DNS »

Bhikkhu Bodhi talks about tolerance and specifically about the cartoon depictions of Muhammad in this video:



In the video (not that long) he makes the point that people should be tolerant and accepting of the adherent's of other religions wishes. Muslims do not like any images of Muhammad, period. Those wishes should be accepted by others. But he also makes the point that some adherents can be too sensitive and can sometimes over-react and certainly violence is not an appropriate response to a cartoon.

I personally don't mind the depictions of Buddha images in restaurants and clubs or in advertising, but the bulge between the legs would be going too far.
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Re: Respect for the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha

Post by Individual »

Ben wrote:Hi all

On another thread, I mused recently about how the Buddha, Buddhism, and I guess Buddhists, seem to be the targets of dispariagement by way of jokes, novelty items or as a form of prosetylization by christian zealots. The comment I made was in response to an episode ;ast Sunday of Rove, a variety program in Australia, which when portrayed a comedy sketch on the topic of karma, made a dispariaging remark about the Buddha. This evening, I found this news item: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009 ... ion=justin" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The plastic figurine of the seated, grinning Buddha had upset monks from an eighth century temple in the ancient capital of Nara.
They complained that the statuette had an inappropriately large bulge between its legs.
The brief story goes on to say that the figurine was pulled from sale.

A couple of years ago, I remember reading about a clothing manufacturer who made ladies thong underwear with a Buddha printed on it and an Australian beer manufacturer who bottled their beer in Buddha (Hotei) shaped bottles.

I sometimes think that it an artefact of living in samsara, the profound and the profane changing places. But I wonder why the same people don't have the balls to make underwear with the veiled image of Mohammad printed on the front or statuetes of mohammad with a hard-on.
Maybe I'm just overly sensitive, cranky or both.
What do you think?

Ben
Considering that the Buddha didn't propose making any figures of him, i think he would be indifferent to these thngs.

Like Retrofuturist said in another thread, we wouldn't start a jihad against it. Nor should we.
The best things in life aren't things.

The Diamond Sutra
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Thaibebop
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Re: Respect for the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha

Post by Thaibebop »

Ben wrote:Hi all

On another thread, I mused recently about how the Buddha, Buddhism, and I guess Buddhists, seem to be the targets of dispariagement by way of jokes, novelty items or as a form of prosetylization by christian zealots. The comment I made was in response to an episode ;ast Sunday of Rove, a variety program in Australia, which when portrayed a comedy sketch on the topic of karma, made a dispariaging remark about the Buddha. This evening, I found this news item: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009 ... ion=justin" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The plastic figurine of the seated, grinning Buddha had upset monks from an eighth century temple in the ancient capital of Nara.
They complained that the statuette had an inappropriately large bulge between its legs.
The brief story goes on to say that the figurine was pulled from sale.

A couple of years ago, I remember reading about a clothing manufacturer who made ladies thong underwear with a Buddha printed on it and an Australian beer manufacturer who bottled their beer in Buddha (Hotei) shaped bottles.

I sometimes think that it an artefact of living in samsara, the profound and the profane changing places. But I wonder why the same people don't have the balls to make underwear with the veiled image of Mohammad printed on the front or statuetes of mohammad with a hard-on.
Maybe I'm just overly sensitive, cranky or both.
What do you think?

Ben
I have these same feelings when I see a head of a Buddha placed on the end of stick and called a bookend, or that lovely hang out place the Buddha Bar with all these pictures of monks and a Buddha that people can get drunk next to and grind against each other, Great!!

My wife is equally upset but she lets it go and says it's their karma they will have to deal with later which means that there will be more poeple seeking the Dhamma in the future. :meditate:
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BlackBird
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Re: Respect for the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha

Post by BlackBird »

I too, used to get upset by these things. But a world without disrespect is a world where everyone's a Noble One.
As long as one percieves the problem to be external, then one will suffer as a result. You can't change these things - But you can change yourself.

Stay well friends
Jack.
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

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AdvaitaJ
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Re: Respect for the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha

Post by AdvaitaJ »

The issue for me isn't being upset by the disrespect so much as irritation with their ignorance. If these people knew how immediately helpful and significant the Buddha's teachings were, they'd probably never do such things. :cookoo:

Regards: AdvaitaJ
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tiltbillings
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Re: Respect for the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha

Post by tiltbillings »

The offending "statue":

http://news.3yen.com/2009-06-25/buddhas ... ls-busted/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Even without a bulge, it is rather nasty.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

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Thaibebop
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Re: Respect for the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha

Post by Thaibebop »

tiltbillings wrote:The offending "statue":

http://news.3yen.com/2009-06-25/buddhas ... ls-busted/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Even without a bulge, it is rather nasty.
That's just stupid looking.
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Ben
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Re: Respect for the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha

Post by Ben »

Hi all

I want to thank you all for your kind responses. And I agree with the majority of sentiments expressed. As I said on another thread, I think that it is our collective equanimity in the face of such ignorance, which is our strength. I also agree with Genkaku, our practice is most important.

I hope you don't mind if I explore another aspect to this discussion. While I was reading your responses, the thought occured to me that if we don't show respect for the triple gem, do we become complicit in the excesses of others, be it stupid remarks by way of a charactature, or some of the other examples I mentioned above? While I agree that we honor the Buddha by walking on the path, it has to be acknowledged that most of us live in highly secularised western societies where appearances are all important. If we do not defend the Buddhadhamma, do we become complicit in someone dispariaging the Buddhadhamma, thus creating a barrier for them in encountering the Dhamma?

Thanks for your kind consideration - I look forward to reading your responses.
Metta

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
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Jechbi
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Re: Respect for the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha

Post by Jechbi »

Ben wrote:If we do not defend the Buddhadhamma, do we become complicit in someone dispariaging the Buddhadhamma, thus creating a barrier for them in encountering the Dhamma?
Yes, I think so.
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
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