Does Satipatthana meditation means understanding Paramatha

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
SarathW
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Does Satipatthana meditation means understanding Paramatha

Postby SarathW » Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:57 am

The way I undestand Satipatthana meditaion means understanding Four Ultimate Realitis.

Four Ultimate Realities (Paramattha Dhammaa) are:

1)Consciousness (Citta)
2)The mental factors (Cetasika) i.e Feeling or sensation (Vedana) and Perception (Sanna) which are arise as a result of consciousness (samkhara)
3)Material form (Ruppa) –This includes body, sex and seat of consciousness. The body-decade is composed of the Four Primary Elements –Extension, cohesion, heat, motion (Pathavi, apo, tejo, vayo)
4)Nirvana (Nibbaana) – Nirvana is an unconditioned reality. All other three are conditioned realities.

I appreciate your input.

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Re: Does Satipatthana meditation means understanding Paramatha

Postby Sekha » Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:18 am

Paramattha is an abhidhamma term that is found only in KN and at AN 10.29.

In other words, it is not Buddha Vacana, and it stems from ditthupadana, attachment to views.

My best suggestion is: drop intellectual inquiry. Go to your cushion and experience yourself satipatthana meditation. This is the only appropriate way to understand it.
Where knowledge ends, religion begins. - B. Disraeli

http://www.buddha-vacana.org

As a sweet-smelling and beautiful lotus flower may grow upon a heap of rubbish thrown on the highway, so also, out of the rubbish heap of beings may appear a disciple of the Buddha, who with his wisdom, shines resplendent in wisdom. -/ Dhp 58-59

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Re: Does Satipatthana meditation means understanding Paramatha

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:56 am

Greetings Sarath,

As Sekha alludes to, you will have quite a bit of trouble trying to retrofit your Abhidhamma concepts back into the Buddha's satipatthana instruction. Furthermore, I don't understand the benefit in attempting to do so.

"What are the four?

"Here, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu lives contemplating the body in the body, ardent, clearly comprehending (it) and mindful (of it), having overcome, in this world, covetousness and grief; he lives contemplating the feelings in the feelings, ardent, clearly comprehending (them) and mindful (of them), having overcome, in this world, covetousness and grief; he lives contemplating consciousness in consciousness, ardent, clearly comprehending (it) and mindful (of it), having overcome in this world covetousness and grief; he lives contemplating mental objects in mental objects, ardent, clearly comprehending (them) and mindful (of them), having overcome, in this world, covetousness and grief."

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Does Satipatthana meditation means understanding Paramatha

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:13 am

Hi Sarath,

The abhidhamma classifications (which are essentially a more detailed version of the sutta classifications such as aggregates) are not necessary. However, since that's the language that a number of modern meditation masters use (and the language explaining the ancient wisdom collected by the commentators, in the Visuddhimagga, for example) they can be extremely helpful in understanding instructions from some books and teachers.

:anjali:
Mike

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Re: Does Satipatthana meditation means understanding Paramatha

Postby Ben » Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:23 am

mikenz66 wrote:Hi Sarath,

The abhidhamma classifications (which are essentially a more detailed version of the sutta classifications such as aggregates) are not necessary. However, since that's the language that a number of modern meditation masters use (and the language explaining the ancient wisdom collected by the commentators, in the Visuddhimagga, for example) they can be extremely helpful in understanding instructions from some books and teachers.

:anjali:
Mike


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Re: Does Satipatthana meditation means understanding Paramatha

Postby SarathW » Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:25 am

Thanks all.
So, can I rephrase the question to "Does Satipatthana meditaion means undestading five aggregates?" I took Niravana aspect out of my previous question.

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Re: Does Satipatthana meditation means understanding Paramatha

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:28 am

Greetings Sarath,

SarathW wrote:"Does Satipatthana meditaion means undestading five aggregates?"


The aggregates of appropriation are one possible frame of reference....

MN 10 wrote: "Furthermore, the monk remains focused on mental qualities in & of themselves with reference to the five clinging-aggregates. And how does he remain focused on mental qualities in & of themselves with reference to the five clinging-aggregates? There is the case where a monk [discerns]: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance. Such is feeling... Such is perception... Such are fabrications... Such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)

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Re: Does Satipatthana meditation means understanding Paramatha

Postby Sekha » Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:32 am

SarathW wrote:"Does Satipatthana meditaion means undestading five aggregates?"

as Retro said, it is part of satipatthana, and one can theoretically choose to practice only in this perspective. However, it requires first to be able to discern them clearly, which is to be achieved through the practice of samatha/ jhana/ cetovimutti or whatever terminology, for which the way to go is generally anapanassati (which is also included in the Satipatthanas).
Where knowledge ends, religion begins. - B. Disraeli

http://www.buddha-vacana.org

As a sweet-smelling and beautiful lotus flower may grow upon a heap of rubbish thrown on the highway, so also, out of the rubbish heap of beings may appear a disciple of the Buddha, who with his wisdom, shines resplendent in wisdom. -/ Dhp 58-59

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Re: Does Satipatthana meditation means understanding Paramatha

Postby Sambojjhanga » Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:45 pm

Sekha wrote:
My best suggestion is: drop intellectual inquiry. Go to your cushion and experience yourself satipatthana meditation. This is the only appropriate way to understand it.


Extraordinarily wise advice.

Metta

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Sabba rasam dhammaraso jinati
The flavor of the dhamma exceeds all other flavors

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Re: Does Satipatthana meditation means understanding Paramatha

Postby DAWN » Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:19 pm

Sekha are reason, right advice !

But logicaly, all informations comes from 5 senses, so satipatthana is based on it, and so study it.
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english

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Re: Does Satipatthana meditation means understanding Paramatha

Postby daverupa » Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:22 pm

DAWN wrote:Sekha are reason, right advice !

But logicaly, all informations comes from 5 senses, so satipatthana is based on it, and so study it.


*6
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

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Re: Does Satipatthana meditation means understanding Paramatha

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:30 pm

daverupa wrote:*6


Image

:sage:
Mike

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Re: Does Satipatthana meditation means understanding Paramatha

Postby DAWN » Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:38 pm

Oh yes! I'am sorry.

But we can say 5 too, because actualy taste is a nose faculty, and langugue can feel only selt paper and sugar. If we close the nose and get some vanilla in the mounth, there is no taste. :?

But there is 6 sense of corse :bow:
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english


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