the great vegetarian debate

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Cittasanto
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Re: Indian Textbook Claims Meat Eaters...

Post by Cittasanto »

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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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tiltbillings
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Re: Indian Textbook Claims Meat Eaters...

Post by tiltbillings »

Image
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Cittasanto
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Re: Indian Textbook Claims Meat Eaters...

Post by Cittasanto »

tiltbillings wrote:Image
is he trying to heave up what he has just seen? haha
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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tiltbillings
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Re: Indian Textbook Claims Meat Eaters...

Post by tiltbillings »

Cittasanto wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:Image
is he trying to heave up what he has just seen? haha
Either that or it is his reaction to viewing his version of the Wicker Man. It just seemed to be an appropriate response to the silly claim in the OP.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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DAWN
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Re: Indian Textbook Claims Meat Eaters...

Post by DAWN »

Actualy there is some logic, because peoples are primates, and primates leaves on the tree, and on the tree there is fruits. And if we could be primates, we was not be able to manipulate objects well, so could not become humans.
So logicaly we are humans because we love fruits on the tree :juggling:
tiltbillings wrote:Image
:lol:
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english
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tiltbillings
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Re: Indian Textbook Claims Meat Eaters...

Post by tiltbillings »

DAWN wrote:Actualy there is some logic, because peoples are primates, and primates leaves on the tree, and on the tree there is fruits. And if we could be primates, we was not be able to manipulate objects well, so could not become humans.
So logicaly we are humans because we love fruits on the tree :juggling:
So, then, are fruit bats.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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DAWN
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Re: Indian Textbook Claims Meat Eaters...

Post by DAWN »

tiltbillings wrote:
DAWN wrote:Actualy there is some logic, because peoples are primates, and primates leaves on the tree, and on the tree there is fruits. And if we could be primates, we was not be able to manipulate objects well, so could not become humans.
So logicaly we are humans because we love fruits on the tree :juggling:
So, then, are fruit bats.
Fruit bats it's a Batman ancestry :smile: I have some doubts about his human nature :?
It's a joke, of corse. ;)
Sabbe dhamma anatta
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Kusala
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Re: Indian Textbook Claims Meat Eaters...

Post by Kusala »

daverupa wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-20354669
Meat-eaters "easily cheat, lie, forget promises and commit sex crimes", according to a controversial school textbook available in India.

...

"The strongest argument that meat is not essential food is the fact that the Creator of this Universe did not include meat in the original diet for Adam and Eve. He gave them fruits, nuts and vegetables," reads a chapter entitled Do We Need Flesh Food?
:jawdrop:
The Buddha was a meat eater... :thinking:
"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "
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DAWN
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Re: Indian Textbook Claims Meat Eaters...

Post by DAWN »

Kusala wrote:
daverupa wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-20354669
Meat-eaters "easily cheat, lie, forget promises and commit sex crimes", according to a controversial school textbook available in India.

...

"The strongest argument that meat is not essential food is the fact that the Creator of this Universe did not include meat in the original diet for Adam and Eve. He gave them fruits, nuts and vegetables," reads a chapter entitled Do We Need Flesh Food?
:jawdrop:
The Buddha was a meat eater... :thinking:
Buddha was dana accepter, and merit creater for lay followers. :thinking:
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english
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DAWN
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Re: Meat eating

Post by DAWN »

To complete.
DN2
"Whereas some brahmans and contemplatives, living off food given in faith, are addicted to consuming stored-up goods such as these — stored-up food, stored-up drinks, stored-up clothing, stored-up vehicles, stored-up bedding, stored-up scents, and stored-up meat — he abstains from consuming stored-up goods such as these. This, too, is part of his virtue."
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english
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Ben
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Re: Meat eating

Post by Ben »

DAWN wrote:To complete.
DN2
"Whereas some brahmans and contemplatives, living off food given in faith, are addicted to consuming stored-up goods such as these — stored-up food, stored-up drinks, stored-up clothing, stored-up vehicles, stored-up bedding, stored-up scents, and stored-up meat — he abstains from consuming stored-up goods such as these. This, too, is part of his virtue."
And by your logic we shouldn't be eating food or drinks.
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
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DAWN
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Re: Meat eating

Post by DAWN »

Ben wrote:
DAWN wrote:To complete.
DN2
"Whereas some brahmans and contemplatives, living off food given in faith, are addicted to consuming stored-up goods such as these — stored-up food, stored-up drinks, stored-up clothing, stored-up vehicles, stored-up bedding, stored-up scents, and stored-up meat — he abstains from consuming stored-up goods such as these. This, too, is part of his virtue."
And by your logic we shouldn't be eating food or drinks.
I my logic - yes, thats why i will ordain, and by doing so i will eat and drink only what is given. If there is nobody who will give to my body conditions to existance, so my body will die. You will ask me thus: but now, do you eat only what is given? And i will say: Yes, because my mother know my moral principes, so she gives me a food, also i have some money from my employer, only for food, so i use it too.

Perharps this quotation is not apropriate, because speak only about "some brahmans and contemplatives, living off food given in faith", but bhikkhu is the exemple to follow, isn't it?

By this cotation i would like to say, that animal lives are stolen, and it's not good to accept or buy what is stolen.
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english
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Cittasanto
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Re: Meat eating

Post by Cittasanto »

Dawn
All that list is excess from donations and it means that the mendicants help themselves when they want something instead of using it as-and-when necessary.
it is still given in faith.
Last edited by Cittasanto on Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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Ben
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Re: Meat eating

Post by Ben »

Keep in mind Dawn that the Buddha was not a vegetarian. He also rejected vegetarianism as a practice for the sangha.
No where, in the Tipitaka did the Buddha advocate for vegetarianism for the sangha nor the laity.
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
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DAWN
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Re: Meat eating

Post by DAWN »

Cittasanto wrote:Dawn
All that list is excess from donations and it means that the mendicants help themselves when they want something instead of using it as-and-when necessary.
I'am sorry i dont fully understand you, can you please reformulate it?

Also i would like hear your answer about the vase-story-question.

Regards. :heart:
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english
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