Difference between Citta and Brahma?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
daverupa
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Re: Difference between Citta and Brahma?

Post by daverupa »

DAWN wrote:
daverupa wrote:
DAWN wrote:jump into your self, see/feel the base, on wich all sankharas and dhammas are based, the impenetrable ground beyound impermanence.
This is adhamma.
Cessetion of suffering is aBuddhadhamma?
Cessetion of contact with sankharas is aBuddhadhamma?

If you know what i try to show, tell me please what i have to do, to see that this state is anicca and dukkha.
"into your self" is adhamma
"the base on which all sankharas are based" is very unclear
"impenetrable ground beyond impermanence" is adhamma

So, by then bringing up "cessation of suffering" and "cessation of contact", you are talking about new things, not that which you had said and which I quoted. This is the "moving the goalposts" fallacy, and makes conversation very difficult.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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DAWN
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Re: Difference between Citta and Brahma?

Post by DAWN »

tiltbillings wrote: And you are making my point, you not talking about the Buddha's teachings here.
I dont try to be reason, actualy i dont metter, i want just you to see it.

You know, it's hard to show the picture to some one who is turned back to you.
You dont want tell me if it's free from suffering and impermanence, and why. But you tell me that i mistake.
It's like sayng that any picture is bad, without watching it.

For the moment, all Buddha's words that i was read, confirm me what i know, and what i feel.

Alas
:thinking:
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english
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tiltbillings
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Re: Difference between Citta and Brahma?

Post by tiltbillings »

DAWN wrote:
tiltbillings wrote: And you are making my point, you not talking about the Buddha's teachings here.
I dont try to be reason, actualy i dont metter, i want just you to see it.
To see what? That you are advocating some thing that the Buddha did not teach? I see that very clearly.
For the moment, all Buddha's words that i was read, confirm me what i know, and what i feel.
Again, you make the point here that even the Buddha's teaching can be so twisted with the best of intentions.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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DAWN
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Re: Difference between Citta and Brahma?

Post by DAWN »

daverupa wrote:

"into your self" is adhamma
"the base on which all sankharas are based" is very unclear
"impenetrable ground beyond impermanence" is adhamma

So, by then bringing up "cessation of suffering" and "cessation of contact", you are talking about new things, not that which you had said and which I quoted. This is the "moving the goalposts" fallacy, and makes conversation very difficult.
You try to analyse my words, all that it's just words, and similies. Designation of some action or object, so you cant say that my words are bad, because you dont know what they used to designate.
Just close (or open) your eyes and listen attentively to your voice.

And then answer me, what is the sound of one hand clapping.
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english
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DAWN
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Re: Difference between Citta and Brahma?

Post by DAWN »

tiltbillings wrote:
DAWN wrote:
tiltbillings wrote: And you are making my point, you not talking about the Buddha's teachings here.
I dont try to be reason, actualy i dont metter, i want just you to see it.
To see what? That you are advocating some thing that the Buddha did not teach? I see that very clearly.
For the moment, all Buddha's words that i was read, confirm me what i know, and what i feel.
Again, you make the point here that even the Buddha's teaching can be so twisted with the best of intentions.
Ok, a make point here.
Thanks to listening. And sorry for offtopic without constructive and objective disscution.

:roll:
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english
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tiltbillings
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Re: Difference between Citta and Brahma?

Post by tiltbillings »

DAWN wrote: . . .
The problem is that you are here -- and elsewhere on this forum -- some sort of ground of being which is supposed to be the basis for all things:

Buddha Nature is nothing.
Like a zero that makes numbers and all mathematics exist, zero can't be devide (unity=interdependance), zero can't be multiply (infinity), cant be create, cant be distruct. ( §14. §15. Ajhan Mun : Heart Released http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... eased.html )
Like a canvas that let the picture be.
Like a silence that let noize exist in it
Like a ground that let us move on it
Unconditioned, not-created, beyond, absolute purity, pure of all fenomena, nature of all fenomena, condition to all fenomena... (Ud 8.4 / Ud 8.3...)
The Buddha never taught any thing such as that, and your appeal to the Udana texts only shows you do not understand what they are saying.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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DAWN
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Re: Difference between Citta and Brahma?

Post by DAWN »

tiltbillings wrote:
DAWN wrote: . . .
The problem is that you are here -- and elsewhere on this forum -- some sort of ground of being which is supposed to be the basis for all things:.
"Nature" is more apropriated word.
"Beyond being" is more apropriated

Like 0 towards all mathematics. Ajhan Mun understands me.

Buddha Nature is nothing.
Like a zero that makes numbers and all mathematics exist, zero can't be devide (unity=interdependance), zero can't be multiply (infinity), cant be create, cant be distruct. ( §14. §15. Ajhan Mun : Heart Released http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... eased.html )
Like a canvas that let the picture be.
Like a silence that let noize exist in it
Like a ground that let us move on it
Unconditioned, not-created, beyond, absolute purity, pure of all fenomena, nature of all fenomena, condition to all fenomena... (Ud 8.4 / Ud 8.3...)
The Buddha never taught any thing such as that, and your appeal to the Udana texts only shows you do not understand what they are saying.[/quote]

It's true, i dont understand it, it cant be understood, it cant be experianced. Experiance of non-experiance.

I dont want to be banned, so i will stop here.
I dont know what it is, or is-not, but i feel free, the rest have no importance.

Good practice for all.
I wish you to get free from all.

:meditate: :heart:
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english
beeblebrox
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Re: Difference between Citta and Brahma?

Post by beeblebrox »

DAWN wrote: Like 0 towards all mathematics. Ajhan Mun understands me.
But, do you understand the people in this thread? :tongue:
Good practice for all.
I wish you to get free from all.

:meditate: :heart:
:anjali:
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tiltbillings
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Re: Difference between Citta and Brahma?

Post by tiltbillings »

DAWN wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
DAWN wrote: . . .
The problem is that you are here -- and elsewhere on this forum -- some sort of ground of being which is supposed to be the basis for all things:.
"Nature" is more apropriated word.
"Beyond being" is more apropriated
I think you mean "appropriate," but show us where the Buddha taught this.
Like 0 towards all mathematics.
Not that you have shown.
Ajhan Mun understands me.
Ajahn Mun is dead.

Buddha Nature is nothing.
Like a zero that makes numbers and all mathematics exist, zero can't be devide (unity=interdependance), zero can't be multiply (infinity), cant be create, cant be distruct. ( §14. §15. Ajhan Mun : Heart Released http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... eased.html )
Like a canvas that let the picture be.
Like a silence that let noize exist in it
Like a ground that let us move on it
Unconditioned, not-created, beyond, absolute purity, pure of all fenomena, nature of all fenomena, condition to all fenomena... (Ud 8.4 / Ud 8.3...)
The Buddha never taught any thing such as that, and your appeal to the Udana texts only shows you do not understand what they are saying.
It's true, i dont understand it, it cant be understood, it cant be experianced. Experiance of non-experiance.
It can be understood and it can be experienced, but what you have shown is that you are reading stuff into these texts that is not there.
I dont want to be banned, so i will stop here.
I dont know what it is, or is-not, but i feel free, the rest have no importance.
You will not get banned unless you violate the TOS and the TOS does not require that you adhere to a particular belief, which is to say that you can believe something that is totally off-the-wall, and you will not be banned for that; however, if you believe something that is totally off-the-wall you can expect that people will disagree with what you are saying.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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DAWN
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Re: Difference between Citta and Brahma?

Post by DAWN »

- Off topic
- Prosetylizing

If our discussion not goes under this rules, and we can continue, i will continue this interesting discussion. But i have to be sure. :spy:
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english
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tiltbillings
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Re: Difference between Citta and Brahma?

Post by tiltbillings »

DAWN wrote:- Off topic
- Prosetylizing

If our discussion not goes under this rules, and we can continue, i will continue this interesting discussion. But i have to be sure. :spy:
Are you trying to convert anyone to your point of view? If not, then don't worry about it.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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DAWN
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Re: Difference between Citta and Brahma?

Post by DAWN »

tiltbillings wrote:
DAWN wrote:- Off topic
- Prosetylizing

If our discussion not goes under this rules, and we can continue, i will continue this interesting discussion. But i have to be sure. :spy:
Are you trying to convert anyone to your point of view? If not, then don't worry about it.
Ok.

So to reply if Buddha teach about it, i will quote this words.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

"Going beyond" is the most important, the door that you will take to go beyond is, in my opinion, secondery, tool, not aim.


Actualy everybody have his own mind door, his own mind knot, so The Noble Eightfold Path is the path to this door, is the path to this knot. On this path, if we practice well, we will meet all necessery tools and knowledges to open the door, to disentangle the knot. "Kamma is his means for going beyond".

All vawes lead to the ground, there is no vawes without ground. "Because there is an unborn — unbecome — unmade — unfabricated, escape from the born — become — made — fabricated is discerned."

Actuly it was not so wise to give you key of my door. So i'am sorry, i'am not good teacher, because my key will not open your door. Actualy if we practice well, then we are able to open our door, so actuly, is like someone was on the way, and one another drop the key to him... He dont know what is that, it have no value for him, and actualy it have no more any value at all, because it's not his door, he is not yet (or alredy yet) in frot of his door or knot, and this key have alredy open his door, door is open, key have no more value.

All that it's just similies.

The only good what i can advice and preache is The Noble Eightfold Path who will lead all peoples to their door, and if they are in front of, they will be able to open it, so any other advice have no importance and any value. Just practice, just encourage.

That is my Eghtfold Path explication:

Right View - Is the view of anicca, dukkha and anatta

Right Intentions - Is liberation

Right Speech/ Right Action/ Right Livelihood - Is not harm

Right Effort/ Right Mindfulness/ Right Concentration - Is harmony (Let kamma do his work, let waves lead to the ground)

Actualy Ajhan Chaa way of teaching was the perfect one, because monks were confronted on their own kamma in daily life, and Ven. Ajhan Chaa helps them to get all necessery from each situation. I dont know if some one know the way that he teach, actualy, i dont know too, but i know that he use everyday situations to teach his followers. Is the best way. :anjali:

It's all that i can say.
:meditate: :heart:
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english
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tiltbillings
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Re: Difference between Citta and Brahma?

Post by tiltbillings »

DAWN wrote:
All vawes lead to the ground, there is no vawes without ground. "Because there is an unborn — unbecome — unmade — unfabricated, escape from the born — become — made — fabricated is discerned."
This text is not talking about a "ground." It is clearly talking about, nibbana, being free of the conditioning greed, hatred, and deusion.

And damdifino what "vawes" is.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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DAWN
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Re: Difference between Citta and Brahma?

Post by DAWN »

tiltbillings wrote:
DAWN wrote:
All vawes lead to the ground, there is no vawes without ground. "Because there is an unborn — unbecome — unmade — unfabricated, escape from the born — become — made — fabricated is discerned."
This text is not talking about a "ground." It is clearly talking about, nibbana, being free of the conditioning greed, hatred, and deusion.

And damdifino what "vawes" is.
I dont know if it's a ground or water or air or fire, but i know that is unborn — unbecome — unmade — unfabricated

Waves is the mouvement.
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english
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tiltbillings
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Re: Difference between Citta and Brahma?

Post by tiltbillings »

DAWN wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
DAWN wrote:
All vawes lead to the ground, there is no vawes without ground. "Because there is an unborn — unbecome — unmade — unfabricated, escape from the born — become — made — fabricated is discerned."
This text is not talking about a "ground." It is clearly talking about, nibbana, being free of the conditioning greed, hatred, and deusion.

And damdifino what "vawes" is.
I dont know if it's a ground or water or air or fire, but i know that is unborn — unbecome — unmade — unfabricated
You are claiming here to be awakened.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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