What mean litteraly : Manopubbangama dhamma ?

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What mean litteraly : Manopubbangama dhamma ?

Postby DAWN » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:01 pm

"Manopubbangama dhamma" can somebody explain my what litteraly it mean

As i can understand Mano-pubbangama is composed by two words. What they mean litteraly, and in whole sense?

I'am sorry for creating a topic for this question, i dont know if there is any special topic for this kind of questions.

Thanks a lot :anjali:
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Re: What mean litteraly : Manopubbangama dhamma ?

Postby daverupa » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:09 pm

"dhamma(s?) have mano as their forerunner."

Transliteration might render "mano foreruns dhammas".
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: What mean litteraly : Manopubbangama dhamma ?

Postby DAWN » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:40 pm

Thanks you!

And Mano, what is it?
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Re: What mean litteraly : Manopubbangama dhamma ?

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:01 pm

DAWN wrote:Thanks you!

And Mano, what is it?
You don't know?

Preceded by perception are mental states.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: What mean litteraly : Manopubbangama dhamma ?

Postby DAWN » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:05 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
DAWN wrote:Thanks you!

And Mano, what is it?
You don't know?

Preceded by perception are mental states.


I'am not scholar, i'am practitioner.

I hope it's not shame to not know what mean mano :smile:
You traduce the whole prase, but i would like to know what mean Mano

It would be gentil
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Re: What mean litteraly : Manopubbangama dhamma ?

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:08 pm

DAWN wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
DAWN wrote:Thanks you!

And Mano, what is it?
You don't know?

Preceded by perception are mental states.


I'am not scholar, i'am practitioner.

I hope it's not shame to not know what mean mano :smile:
You traduce the whole prase, but i would like to know what mean Mano

It would be gentil
Again, use a spell-checker. The translation I gave you here answersthat question, and quite frankly, I think you are playing a bit of a game here.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: What mean litteraly : Manopubbangama dhamma ?

Postby DAWN » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:18 pm

tiltbillings wrote: Again, use a spell-checker. The translation I gave you here answersthat question, and quite frankly, I think you are playing a bit of a game here.


I dont play, and i dont want to be banned be cause of misunderstanding. With respect.

So mano is perception.

Could i ask, why dhamma is traduced like sankhara?
Actualy is the problem, and aim of this topic is to undertand why in this verse dhamma is traduced like mental formation. Thats why i would like to know what means literaly manopubbangama, and if this word can change dhamma on sankhara.
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Re: What mean litteraly : Manopubbangama dhamma ?

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:24 pm

DAWN wrote:
tiltbillings wrote: Again, use a spell-checker. The translation I gave you here answersthat question, and quite frankly, I think you are playing a bit of a game here.


I dont play, and i dont want to be banned be cause of misunderstanding. With respect.
Have you violated the TOS? If not, you are not going to get banned.

So mano is perception.
Yes.

Could i ask, why dhamma is traduced like sankhara?
Traduced? Is that the word you want here? I have no idea what you are asking if it is.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/traduce
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: What mean litteraly : Manopubbangama dhamma ?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:27 pm

For the practical man:

As the dawn precedes the sunrise, thought or mind (mano) precedes all speech and actions.
Mind is the forerunner of (all evil) states.
Mind is chief; and they are mind-made.
If one speaks or acts with a corrupt mind,
from that, suffering follows,
as the wheel follows the hoof of the ox.

Mind is the forerunner of (all good) states.
Mind is chief, and they are mind-made.
If one speaks or acts with a pure mind,
from that, happiness follows,
as one’s own shadow that never leaves.
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Re: What mean litteraly : Manopubbangama dhamma ?

Postby DAWN » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:30 pm

Actualy some peoples traduce dhamma like dhamma, but others traduce dhamma like mental formation. So i dont understand why.

Thanks for the link !

Thanks you Bhante. :anjali:
Sabbe dhamma anatta
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Re: What mean litteraly : Manopubbangama dhamma ?

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:33 pm

DAWN wrote:Actualy some peoples traduce dhamma like dhamma, but others traduce dhamma like mental formation. So i dont understand why.

Thanks for the link !

Thanks you Bhante. :anjali:
Traduce: to expose to shame or blame by means of falsehood and misrepresentation.

I have no idea what you mean here.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: What mean litteraly : Manopubbangama dhamma ?

Postby DAWN » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:40 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
DAWN wrote:Actualy some peoples traduce dhamma like dhamma, but others traduce dhamma like mental formation. So i dont understand why.

Thanks for the link !

Thanks you Bhante. :anjali:
Traduce: to expose to shame or blame by means of falsehood and misrepresentation.

I have no idea what you mean here.


On pali it's said Manopubbangama dhamma
But it's traduced like "mental phenomena" here http://www.tipitaka.net/tipitaka/dhp/ve ... ?verse=001
Or like "(all evil) states" in post of Bhante Pesala.

So my question is why when it's said "dhamma" peoples read other words? Perharps this question have no objectif responce, but the topic was created to understand if the word "Manopubbangama" enfluence word dhamma, answer is - no. Or yes?
Sabbe dhamma anatta
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Re: What mean litteraly : Manopubbangama dhamma ?

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:41 pm

DAWN wrote:. . .
What do you mean by "traduced?" I cannot answer a question that makes absolutely no sense.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: What mean litteraly : Manopubbangama dhamma ?

Postby DAWN » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:45 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
DAWN wrote:. . .
What do you mean by "traduced?" I cannot answer a question that makes absolutely no sense.


Ah! I'am sorry! I mistake everytime with this word.
Traduction = french
Translation = english

I mean translation.
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Re: What mean litteraly : Manopubbangama dhamma ?

Postby daverupa » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:51 pm

DAWN wrote:the topic was created to understand if the word "Manopubbangama" enfluence word dhamma, answer is - no. Or yes?


It's helpful to think that, when translating sentences, sentences are the units to think about. Words can somewhat change their meanings, and their connotative realms, based on the sentences within which they are located. In this case, I don't think "dhamma" is being affected by that specific compound in a grammatical way.

But there is a further caution - this is poetry. So we will want to pay attention to these contexts (the line is from the Dhammapada, for those following along at home).
Last edited by daverupa on Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: What mean litteraly : Manopubbangama dhamma ?

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:52 pm

DAWN wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
DAWN wrote:Actualy some peoples traduce dhamma like dhamma, but others traduce dhamma like mental formation. So i dont understand why.

Thanks for the link !

Thanks you Bhante. :anjali:
Traduce: to expose to shame or blame by means of falsehood and misrepresentation.

I have no idea what you mean here.


On pali it's said Manopubbangama dhamma
But it's traduced like "mental phenomena" here http://www.tipitaka.net/tipitaka/dhp/ve ... ?verse=001
Or like "(all evil) states" in post of Bhante Pesala.

So my question is why when it's said "dhamma" peoples read other words? Perharps this question have no objectif responce, but the topic was created to understand if the word "Manopubbangama" enfluence word dhamma, answer is - no. Or yes?
Okay Translation, but your question still makes no sense.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: What mean litteraly : Manopubbangama dhamma ?

Postby DAWN » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:56 am

daverupa wrote:
DAWN wrote:the topic was created to understand if the word "Manopubbangama" enfluence word dhamma, answer is - no. Or yes?


It's helpful to think that, when translating sentences, sentences are the units to think about. Words can somewhat change their meanings, and their connotative realms, based on the sentences within which they are located. In this case, I don't think "dhamma" is being affected by that specific compound in a grammatical way.

But there is a further caution - this is poetry. So we will want to pay attention to these contexts (the line is from the Dhammapada, for those following along at home).


"They are units to think about"
It's very true. I understand why it's changes now.

But the question arise, who make decision about what should think the practitioner about? Buddha, about whoole conception of "a dhamma", or translator, about just one part of this word like mental fenomena or other?
This is a good question...
Sabbe dhamma anatta
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Re: What mean litteraly : Manopubbangama dhamma ?

Postby DAWN » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:57 am

tiltbillings wrote:Okay Translation, but your question still makes no sense.

All i say have no sense.
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Re: What mean litteraly : Manopubbangama dhamma ?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:57 am

DAWN wrote:
But the question arise, who make decision about what should think the practitioner about? Buddha, about whoole conception of "a dhamma", or translator, about just one part of this word like mental fenomena or other?
This is a good question...
Your question is not good. It is unclear. Try for shorter, clearer sentences.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: What mean litteraly : Manopubbangama dhamma ?

Postby DAWN » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:30 am

tiltbillings wrote:
DAWN wrote:
But the question arise, who make decision about what should think the practitioner about? Buddha, about whoole conception of "a dhamma", or translator, about just one part of this word like mental fenomena or other?
This is a good question...
Your question is not good. It is unclear. Try for shorter, clearer sentences.


Why word "dhamma" is translated like "mental formation". Who? and why? take decision to take just a little part of meaning of word dhamma.
Sabbe dhamma anatta
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