Thanks for providing with textual support!
I think one of the difficulty for many people to accept this approach is that they don't see how correct intellectual understanding and wise consideration lead to direct awareness of reality. That's why there is usually the reaction like: "ok, we learn about citta and citasika in theory, then what? how to apply into practice?"
Do you have any material about that at hands?
robertk wrote:mikenz66 wrote:Hi DF,
Thanks. Of course those are all the same arguments I've seen many times before, so I'm afraid I'm a bit jaded...
I guess it is useful to see explicitly spelled out that, according to these arguments, believing that reading Dhamma book, visiting Kuhn Sujin, or discussing the Dhamma with friends will help to develop right view is just as misguided as thinking that deliberately watching body, feelings, etc, will help to develop right view.
Some of AS's students seemed to be denying that, but I may have been misunderstanding them. It's hard to get my head around the idea that people can have the motivation to fly to Bangkok to visit AS without developing some expectation that it will be helpful to do so...
I think there should be some knowledge of the conditions for right view, which are of course, hearing and considering correct Dhamma.
Only a Buddha can be enlightened without hearing Dhamma, and even he must have heard it in past lives.
Hence if one has the opportunity to hear Saddhadhamma - especially if it pertains to the heart of the teaching, anatta, then that is something worthy of making effort to travel and listen. As said In the Samyutta nikaya V (Sayings on stream entry p347 The great chapter Dhammadina ) 5oo rich merchants came to see the Buddha . They asked how they should live their lives. The Buddha suggested that they train themselves thus:
"as to those discourses uttered by the Tathagatha, deep, deep in meaning, transcendental and concerned with the void (about anatta) from time to time we will spend our days learning them. That is how you must spend your days."
Compare this with people like the Indian yogi who is revered for holding his hand up in the air for over 15 years. He believes tapas is the way to go beyond. Some people would even rather sit in a jungle than listen to Dhamma-..
It is not about action as DF said, it is only about understanding- and that has to become firm at the theoretical level.
Again as DF has stressed Right View is key:
Only if there is right view is the eightfactored path being developed: "Bhikkhus, just as the dawn is the forerunner and first indication of the rising of the sun, so is right view the forerunner and first indication of wholesome states. For one of right view, bhikkhus, right intention springs up. For one of right intention, right speech springs up. For one of right speech, right action springs up. For one of right action, right livelihood springs up. For one of right livelihood, right effort springs up. For one of right effort, right mindfulness springs up. For one of right mindfulness, right concentration springs up. For one of right concentration, right knowledge springs up. For one of right knowledge, right deliverance springs up. Anguttara Nikaya 10:121"