Physical pain - nama or rupa?

[retrofuturist]

Greetings,

I've probably read the answer to this question somewhere, but I wouldn't know quite where to look for the answer, so I thought it might be easier to ask here, and hopefully someone can answer me at the drop of a hat.

Obviously the physical body constitutes rupa, but what about physical pain arising from rupa? How is that classified in the Abhidhamma? Is it rupa too, or is it nama?

Metta,
Retro.

[jcsuperstar]

good question.

[cooran]

Hello Retro, all,

These threads from dhammastudygroup may be helpful:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dhammastudygroup/

You will need to join, if you are not already a member. Then click on Files in the menu on the left hand side. Then click on "Useful_Posts_March_2009.htm"
Choose 'P' and scroll down to:
Pain, Painful feelings
3862, 3879, 14230, 28108, 45268, 45592, 47937, 52240, 61395, 69147, 70462, 80310, 87449

metta
Chris

[Dhammanando]

Painful bodily feeling is the vedanā that accompanies the fifth of the seven types of unwholesome-resultant consciousness (akusala-vipāka citta), namely, unwholesome-resultant bodily consciousness accompanied by pain (dukkhasahagataṃ kāyaviññāṇaṃ). The basis (vatthu) of this citta is rūpa, but the citta itself and the vedanā are nāma.

Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu

[retrofuturist]

Greetings bhante,

Thank you.

Metta,
Retro.

[Sylvester]

Painful bodily feeling is the vedanā that accompanies the fifth of the seven types of unwholesome-resultant consciousness (akusala-vipāka citta), namely, unwholesome-resultant bodily consciousness accompanied by pain (dukkhasahagataṃ kāyaviññāṇaṃ). The basis (vatthu) of this citta is rūpa, but the citta itself and the vedanā are nāma.

Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu

Dear Bhante

I apologise in advance if I am trawling up old material, but hope you can assist with a point related to your previous assertion of "kammic minimalism" and the akusala-vipaka citta above.

Is this akusala-vipaka citta ALWAYS the result of kamma, whether past life or present life kamma? If so, is it still tenable to assert kammic minimalism as per Sivaka Sutta, SN 36.21 on the basis that kamma may or may not have been the operative factor in determining the rupa-vatthu part of the phassa triad?

If so, would it be correct to conclude that what comes into contact with our external sense media may or may not be kamma vipaka, but that all corresponding vinnana of such phassa is kammically determined?

With metta

[Individual]

Physical pain is "dukkha". Mental pain is "domanassa".

Ven. Dhammanando, if the citta associated with physical pain is nama, how is dukkha distinguished from domanassa?

[terryshine]

I think the body only has touch sensation. If it is a soft touch (rupa) then a pleasant mental feeling arises (nama), which is called pleasurable body feeling, as it is based on the body, but is'nt the body. If a hard touch then an unpleasant mental feeling arises, which is called unpleasant body feeling, as it is based on the body, but is'nt the body. Where the switch from pleasant to unpleasant is I guess would be due to past Kamma, but not sure. I'm absolutely 100% sure that this is correct - unless of course I'm wrong!
Terry

[Ben]

Dear all

This is a friendly reminder that posts in the Classical Mahavihara Theravada fora require textual evidence to support a contention.

The Abhidhamma and Classical Theravada sub-forums are specialized venues for the discussion of the Abhidhamma and the classical Mahavihara understanding of the Dhamma. Within these forums the Pali Tipitaka and its commentaries are for discussion purposes treated as authoritative. These forums are for the benefit of those members who wish to develop a deeper understanding of these texts and are not for the challenging of the Abhidhamma and/or Theravada commentarial literature.

Posts should also include support from a reference, a citation (Tipitaka, commentarial, or from a later work from an author representative of the Classical point-of-view).

Posts that contain personal opinions and conjecture, points of view arrived at from meditative experiences, conversations with devas, blind faith in the supreme veracity of one's own teacher's point of view etc. are all regarded as off-topic, and as such, will be subject to moderator review and/or removal.

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=374

I would appreciate it if you could respect these guidelines in this forum.
Thanks for your cooperation.
Metta

Ben

[terryshine]

Thanks Ben, I'm just wondering were the Buddha gained his knowlege from if not from meditation experience!