sense restraint

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sense restraint

Postby befriend » Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:30 pm

what is the pratice of sense restraint. anyone know about this. metta, befriend
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Re: sense restraint

Postby polarbuddha101 » Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:36 pm

Restraint of the senses
"And what more is to be done? 'We will guard the doors to our sense faculties. On seeing a form with the eye, we will not grasp at any theme or variations by which — if we were to dwell without restraint over the faculty of the eye — evil, unskillful qualities such as greed or distress might assail us. We will practice for its restraint. We will protect the faculty of the eye. We will achieve restraint with regard to the faculty of the eye. On hearing a sound with the ear... On smelling an aroma with the nose... On tasting a flavor with the tongue... On feeling a tactile sensation with the body... On cognizing an idea with the intellect, we will not grasp at any theme or variations by which — if we were to dwell without restraint over the faculty of the intellect — evil, unskillful qualities such as greed or distress might assail us. We will practice for its restraint. We will protect the faculty of the intellect. We will achieve restraint with regard to the faculty of the intellect': That's how you should train yourselves. Now the thought may occur to you, 'We are endowed with conscience & concern. Our bodily conduct is pure. Our verbal conduct... our mental conduct is pure. Our livelihood is pure. We guard the doors to our sense faculties. That much is enough, that much means we're done, so that the goal of our contemplative state has been reached. There's nothing further to be done,' and you may rest content with just that. So I tell you, monks. I exhort you, monks. Don't let those of you who seek the contemplative state fall away from the goal of the contemplative state when there is more to be done.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html


Endowed with this noble restraint over the sense faculties, he is inwardly sensitive to the pleasure of being blameless.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."
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Re: sense restraint

Postby befriend » Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:11 am

thank you, but i dont know what that means in laymans terms. when i see the sunset and liking arises, do i catch myself and let that go, and then stop looking at the sunset.
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Re: sense restraint

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:19 am

There have been several threads on this, try doing a search.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
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Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: sense restraint

Postby daverupa » Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:46 am

On seeing the sunset with the eye, we will not grasp at any theme or variations by which — if we were to dwell without restraint over the faculty of the eye — evil, unskillful qualities such as greed or distress might assail us. We will practice for its restraint. We will protect the faculty of the eye. We will achieve restraint with regard to the faculty of the eye.


What still does not make sense here?
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: sense restraint

Postby befriend » Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:42 am

daverupa wrote:
On seeing the sunset with the eye, we will not grasp at any theme or variations by which — if we were to dwell without restraint over the faculty of the eye — evil, unskillful qualities such as greed or distress might assail us. We will practice for its restraint. We will protect the faculty of the eye. We will achieve restraint with regard to the faculty of the eye.


What still does not make sense here?


whats underlined.
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Re: sense restraint

Postby daverupa » Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:28 am

befriend wrote:
daverupa wrote:
On seeing the sunset with the eye, we will not grasp at any theme or variations by which — if we were to dwell without restraint over the faculty of the eye — evil, unskillful qualities such as greed or distress might assail us. We will practice for its restraint. We will protect the faculty of the eye. We will achieve restraint with regard to the faculty of the eye.


What still does not make sense here?


whats underlined.


So, others are better equipped to bring in the Pali terms; but we can note that we're being asked to discern the various differences between, say, one sunset and another, or a sunset and clear day sky in the same spot. As the sunset is marked by certain differences from these other scenarios, we can say that the sunset has themes and variations - the subtle hue changes, the deep colors and any cloud formations, for example.

Now, among these are ones taken as pleasant, but we are advised to note that if we dwell on them and note greed (yes! more!) or distress (it's fading! it's not as spectacular as last time!) arising due to that, this is a time for wisdom: note that greed or distress were/are/will be dukkha, and that the cause of it lay with how one dealt with the particular themes/variations of visual contact. This, of course, can be done with all six senses.

Do you see the gist of the thing?

:heart:
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: sense restraint

Postby DAWN » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:59 am

befriend wrote:thank you, but i dont know what that means in laymans terms. when i see the sunset and liking arises, do i catch myself and let that go, and then stop looking at the sunset.


There is this sutta.
Make our mind like a pure lotus on witch rain drop slide down without penetrating lotus leaf, without enfluencing lotus leaf, without contact.

Ud 1.10
"Then, Bāhiya, you should train yourself thus: In reference to the seen, there will be only the seen. In reference to the heard, only the heard. In reference to the sensed, only the sensed. In reference to the cognized, only the cognized. That is how you should train yourself. When for you there will be only the seen in reference to the seen, only the heard in reference to the heard, only the sensed in reference to the sensed, only the cognized in reference to the cognized, then, Bāhiya, there is no you in connection with that. When there is no you in connection with that, there is no you there. When there is no you there, you are neither here nor yonder nor between the two. This, just this, is the end of stress."
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english
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Re: sense restraint

Postby ground » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:23 am

befriend wrote:thank you, but i dont know what that means in laymans terms. when i see the sunset and liking arises, do i catch myself and let that go, and then stop looking at the sunset.

Intention to let go is actually the opposite of letting go. Intention is grasping. "Let go" is misleading because you can only let go what you first have grasped and touched. Let be. Let everything arise in its own place as it arises and let it cease in its own place as it ceases.
Let arise whatever arises and let cease whatever ceases. If liking arises let liking arise. If liking ceases let liking cease. The same with disliking. No "I" is getting involved in anything. And if "I" or "mine" arise neverthless let them be as well :sage:
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Re: sense restraint

Postby DAWN » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:20 am

:goodpost:

We can not make water smooth if we smooth out it with our hand.
We have just to stop tuching it.

When there is no contact, there is no perception, volitional formation, feeling , and finaly no agging and death.

:namaste:
Sabbe dhamma anatta
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I'am sorry for my english
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Re: sense restraint

Postby daverupa » Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:14 pm

ground wrote:Intention to let go is actually the opposite of letting go. Intention is grasping. "Let go" is misleading because you can only let go what you first have grasped and touched. Let be. Let everything arise in its own place as it arises and let it cease in its own place as it ceases.
Let arise whatever arises and let cease whatever ceases. If liking arises let liking arise. If liking ceases let liking cease. The same with disliking. No "I" is getting involved in anything. And if "I" or "mine" arise neverthless let them be as well :sage:


The underlined portions are mistaken; even the Buddha experienced five aggregates, sankhara among them. (What is missing are sankhara which are in any way related to greed, hatred, or nescience.)

The description might also mislead the practitioner; it is important not to become passive; a foundation of right effort is essential:

SN 45.8 wrote:"And what, monks, is right effort?

[i] "There is the case where a monk generates desire, endeavors, activates persistence, upholds & exerts his intent for the sake of the non-arising of evil, unskillful qualities that have not yet arisen.

[ii] "He generates desire, endeavors, activates persistence, upholds & exerts his intent for the sake of the abandonment of evil, unskillful qualities that have arisen.

[iii] "He generates desire, endeavors, activates persistence, upholds & exerts his intent for the sake of the arising of skillful qualities that have not yet arisen.

[iv] "He generates desire, endeavors, activates persistence, upholds & exerts his intent for the maintenance, non-confusion, increase, plenitude, development, & culmination of skillful qualities that have arisen: This, monks, is called right effort."


Let's remember this striving as an important aspect of the Path, one which forms part of Samadhi.

---

One further note about intention, worth reading in full:

SN 51.15 wrote:"Didn't you first have the intent, thinking, 'I'll go to the park,' and then when you reached the park, wasn't that particular intent allayed?"

"Yes, sir."

"So it is with an arahant...
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: sense restraint

Postby ground » Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:33 pm

daverupa wrote:
ground wrote:Intention to let go is actually the opposite of letting go. Intention is grasping. "Let go" is misleading because you can only let go what you first have grasped and touched. Let be. Let everything arise in its own place as it arises and let it cease in its own place as it ceases.
Let arise whatever arises and let cease whatever ceases. If liking arises let liking arise. If liking ceases let liking cease. The same with disliking. No "I" is getting involved in anything. And if "I" or "mine" arise neverthless let them be as well :sage:


The underlined portions are mistaken; ...


Not necessarily ...

"What one intends, what one arranges, and what one obsesses about:[1] This is a support for the stationing of consciousness. There being a support, there is a landing [or: an establishing] of consciousness. When that consciousness lands and grows, there is the production of renewed becoming in the future. When there is the production of renewed becoming in the future, there is future birth, aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair. Such is the origination of this entire mass of suffering & stress.

"If one doesn't intend and doesn't arrange, but one still obsesses [about something], this is a support for the stationing of consciousness. There being a support, there is a landing of consciousness. When that consciousness lands and grows, there is the production of renewed becoming in the future. When there is the production of renewed becoming in the future, there is future birth, aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair. Such [too] is the origination of this entire mass of suffering & stress.

"But when one doesn't intend, arrange, or obsess [about anything], there is no support for the stationing of consciousness. There being no support, there is no landing of consciousness. When that consciousness doesn't land & grow, there is no production of renewed becoming in the future. When there is no production of renewed becoming in the future, there is no future birth, aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, or despair. Such is the cessation of this entire mass of suffering & stress."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
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Re: sense restraint

Postby daverupa » Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:52 pm

"It is possible, brahman, to lay down a gradual training, a gradual doing, a gradual practice in respect of this dhamma and discipline..."

So, for this reason, I think that's putting the cart before the horse. Sense restraint is the thread's theme, not this vaunted bhavana of which you speak.

:heart:
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: sense restraint

Postby ground » Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:14 pm

daverupa wrote:"It is possible, brahman, to lay down a gradual training, a gradual doing, a gradual practice in respect of this dhamma and discipline..."

So, for this reason, I think that's putting the cart before the horse. Sense restraint is the thread's theme, not this vaunted bhavana of which you speak.

:heart:


Gruadual or non-gradual, be it as it may be ... is this the threads theme?
And whatever the threads theme may be the thread openener however wrote this which may be interpreted as question although question mark is missing:
befriend wrote:thank you, but i dont know what that means in laymans terms. when i see the sunset and liking arises, do i catch myself and let that go, and then stop looking at the sunset.


And to that it has been replied:
ground wrote:Intention to let go is actually the opposite of letting go. Intention is grasping. "Let go" is misleading because you can only let go what you first have grasped and touched. Let be. Let everything arise in its own place as it arises and let it cease in its own place as it ceases.
Let arise whatever arises and let cease whatever ceases. If liking arises let liking arise. If liking ceases let liking cease. The same with disliking. No "I" is getting involved in anything. And if "I" or "mine" arise neverthless let them be as well :sage:


which may be interpreted to comply with the cetana sutta quoted above and it may also be interpreted to contradict other suttas.
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Re: sense restraint

Postby Dmytro » Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:36 pm

befriend wrote:thank you, but i dont know what that means in laymans terms. when i see the sunset and liking arises, do i catch myself and let that go, and then stop looking at the sunset.


This skill is rather like maintaining a balance while walking a tightrope - it is very much connected with the mindfulness of the body. One feels what happens in the body during seeing the sunset, and accordingly adjusts the direction of attention.

From the Lohicca sutta of Samyutta Nikaya:

"But Master Kaccana said 'with sense doors guarded.' In what way, Master Kaccana, is one 'with sense doors guarded'?"

"Here, brahmin, having seen a form with the eye, someone is not intent upon a pleasing form and not repelled by a displeasing form. He dwells having set up mindfulness of the body, with a measureless mind, and he understands as it really is that liberation of mind, liberation by wisdom, wherein those evil unwholesome states cease without remainder. Having heard a sound with the ear ... Having cognized a mental phenomenon with the mind, someone is not intent upon a pleasing mental phenomenon and not repelled by a displeasing mental phenomenon. He dwells having set up mindfulness of the body ... cease without remainder. It is in such a way, brahmin, that one is 'with sense doors guarded.'"

"It is wonderful, Master Kaccana! It is amazing, Master Kaccana! How Master Kaccana has declared one whose sense doors are actually guarded to be one 'with sense doors guarded'!"

For practical instructions, see the talk by Ven. Thanissaro:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... #restraint
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