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Rebirth consciousness - Dhamma Wheel

Rebirth consciousness

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
SarathW
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Rebirth consciousness

Postby SarathW » Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:08 am

Is Patisndi Citta or Vinnana (Rebirth conciseness) arise with the sperm or the egg?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Rebirth consciousness

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:01 am

As far as I know, neither. It arises with the fertilized egg at conception. The Buddha said that for conception to take place three things must be present – the sexual union of the parents, their fertility and the presence of the gandhabba, ie. the consciousness of the being who is to be reborn (MN I.265). This consciousness absorbs itself in the fertilised egg and begins to animate it so that it grows into a fully formed being. "Consciousness" used here in conventional language, not meant to imply anything permanent; perhaps transference of kammic energies is a better term.
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SarathW
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Re: Rebirth consciousness

Postby SarathW » Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:07 am

Thanks David. How do we explain identical twins. (split egg)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Rebirth consciousness

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:24 am

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SarathW
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Re: Rebirth consciousness

Postby SarathW » Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:39 am

Thanks. My understanding is that the split of egg happens after the fertilisation (for identical twins).
On the other hand if we talk about a so called (“being “ ie. Gandhabba) aren't we clinging to personality belief (sole theory)?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

santa100
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Re: Rebirth consciousness

Postby santa100 » Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:22 am


SarathW
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Re: Rebirth consciousness

Postby SarathW » Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:51 am

Thank you Santa. This is the first time I came across this teaching.

By the way what is your thought about identical twins?
Can I imagine that the consciousness like a river and it branch out??
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Rebirth consciousness

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:19 am

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santa100
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Re: Rebirth consciousness

Postby santa100 » Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:31 am

http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... -identical

http://www.lifenews.com/2012/07/24/iden ... -the-womb/

Hi SarathW, science reveals new findings every day and from the latest ones like above, it seems like identical twins come from separate gandhabbas. Afterall, even identical twins will grow up and be subjected to different futures according to their own separate kamma. There's no doubt that their old kamma(ie. what they acted, thought, and spoke) in their previous life was very very similar and that's why they share the same kind of initial environment in this current life. However, it can't be exactly the same kamma,ie. one could die abruptly as a result of a car accident in his teenage year while the other might live to a ripe old age. One might grow up to be a wealthy company CEO but married to a nasty woman while the other might grow up to be a modest car mechanic but married to a good wife and have nice children, etc..

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DAWN
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Re: Rebirth consciousness

Postby DAWN » Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:38 am

No craving for procreation of yourself - no problemo
No craving for havig some litte living toy - no problemo
No craving for sensual pleasure - no problemo

:strawman:
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...

SarathW
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Re: Rebirth consciousness

Postby SarathW » Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:31 pm

David: Your comment was very interesting. When I raised this question I thought that identical twins question will be an issue to no soul theory.
Santa : your links are very helpful

Thanks every one.

I like to have you opinion on another question. Does Sperm cells arisen with five aggregate?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

SarathW
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Re: Rebirth consciousness

Postby SarathW » Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:18 am

Thanks every one. I got the answer to my questin in another post. Please read the following link. :smile:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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robertk
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Re: Rebirth consciousness

Postby robertk » Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:35 pm


SarathW
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Re: Rebirth consciousness

Postby SarathW » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:44 pm

Hi Robertk
Sorry I am not sure of this. If I we look at the theory of evolution, we evolved overtime. Human and animals are just an aggregate of cells.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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retrofuturist
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Re: Rebirth consciousness

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:22 pm

Greetings Robert,

How then to account for their behaviour, as observed under microscope? Doesn't seem like merely rupa...

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Rebirth consciousness

Postby David N. Snyder » Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:51 am

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daverupa
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Re: Rebirth consciousness

Postby daverupa » Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:26 pm

Quite a big problem with respect to abortions?

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ground
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Re: Rebirth consciousness

Postby ground » Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:44 pm


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retrofuturist
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Re: Rebirth consciousness

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:42 pm

:goodpost:

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Aloka
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Re: Rebirth consciousness

Postby Aloka » Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:05 am

What does a ''rebirth consciousness'' actually look like ? How does it move about ?


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