santa100 wrote:Yes, provided that one's made "fair" and "calculated" assumptions. So far I've seen neither one..
Of course you have. But they just go right over your head as if you don't want to pay attention to them. One last time, here they are:
1) NO single sutta you gave specifically and certainly talk about an after death hell. They just mention a hell. You can interpret this "hell" many different ways. At least the "mental hell" is something we all can verify, we all have experienced right here. But I do not deny the possibility of after life hell either.
2) No sutta you gave specifically and certainly say a killer of his parent dies, goes to hell, suffers there, rearise as human and then only attains nibbana. They just say "festering in hell". Anyone can interpret this as psychological. The immense mental agony of a wrong doing is festering in hell. Guilt is festering in hell. Anger is festering in hell. This happens for a long time too. A killer of a mother is in a mentally very dark place. It will be very very hard for him to come out of that dark state and achieve something as sublime as nibbana in just a matter of few days or even years. This maybe why the suttas say "festering in hell". That does not mean an absolute certain hell world he goes after death. That is yet another possible way to interpret the sutta. That's all.
3) Sutta interpretations aside, we cannot also deny the overall message of a bulk of other suttas which say that nibbana is available to anyone following the 8-fold path to its maturity, without exception.
4) Angulimala is a man who killed many hundred mothers god knows how, removed their fingers (hopefully after they were dead), wore them around his neck. It was a gruesome blood bath. For a long time he terrorized villagers. Disturb human life. Small kid to old mothers were no exception to his killing. Yet somehow he found nibbana later in life. It is a pretty fair assumption to think that it is possible a person who killed a mother (or even a non-biological adopted mother) in a moment of careless anger can also find peace later in life. They both will suffer mental hell yet it is possible they can come out from those dark mental states later in life if they try.
Now if you look at these evidence and still think "he HAS to die and go to hell and come back and there is no other way than this way" then I am afraid you are "incurable". You have taken up a belief (which by the way is not even strongly and definitely supported by suttas) and you are clinging to that belief for your dear life.