."behold how through few teaching I have gone to the happy destiny and reached happiness..Those who continually hear Dhamma from you, these methinks, touch the deathless (nibbana) the peace
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Not at all. In my opinion your statement is an extrapolation from the Buddha's teaching that the aggregates (or rupa+citta) cannot be controlled to a particular interpretation that denies that there is any possibility of development by making choices about the conditions. The argument, if true, would also apply to to the path you choose to follow.
Now, of course, you might object that Ajahn Amaro does not explain how that "me trying to do something" is let go of.
However, you write that such practice is possible:dhamma follower wrote:... as a description of one's daily life ... and the objects that sati-panna can arise and be aware of, when conditions for it to arise are sufficient.
so evidently it can happen, given the right conditions.
dhamma follower wrote:2.But this interpretation goes against what we have agreed so far that sati can not be induced at will, but arises by conditions, which is the ones described in the avija sutta
dhamma followers wrote:But, as it has been argued for a while, as long as one holds the idea of a "proper practice" whereby one induces sati, that means there's not yet right understanding. So there's not such thing as "proper practice with right view". It is only the words, not the actual understanding of dhammas.
From my point of view, unfortunately, no-one in the KS camp seems to understand my questions well enough to actually address them.
I guess I should, therefore, simply give up and perhaps come back to it in another lifetime or so...
robertk wrote: The meditation technique aficionados believe that by focusing on present realities such as feeling, body, taste, sound etc. that this is either satisampajanna or leads to it. I think such focusing is due to a subtle belief that a momentary reality like sati can be made to arise.
In other words concentrating or focusing on any object is not a condition for sati.
"Mindfulness of death, when developed & pursued, is of great fruit & great benefit. It plunges into the Deathless, has the Deathless as its final end. Therefore you should develop mindfulness of death."
"I have given you this parable to convey a meaning. The meaning is this: The bowl filled to the brim with oil stands for mindfulness immersed in the body. Thus you should train yourselves: 'We will develop mindfulness immersed in the body. We will pursue it, hand it the reins and take it as a basis, give it a grounding, steady it, consolidate it, and undertake it well.' That is how you should train yourselves."
robertk wrote:My contention is that only by studying and considering Dhamma can there be the conditions laid that will sooner or later lead to very brief moments of experiencing realities with satisampajana.
robertk wrote:And the path to deeper understanding and more frequent moments of sati is a very long one, lifetimes probably.
robertk wrote:the dispute is this;
The meditation technique aficionados believe that by focusing on present realities such as feeling, body, taste, sound etc. that this is either satisampajanna or leads to it. I think such focusing is due to a subtle belief that a momentary reality like sati can be made to arise. In other words concentrating or focusing on any
object is not a condition for sati.
robertk wrote:That section of the visuddhimagga is explaining samatha not vipassana.
SamKR wrote:Why would then the Buddha say these:
robertk wrote:But it is very different for genuine sati samajana to be present.
robertk wrote:Sati and sampajana arise together.
In the context of satipatthana it always talks about sati-sampajana...
Passages like this do give the distinct impression of sati as an activity rather than as a result of practice.
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