cause of depression

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
danieLion
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Re: cause of depression

Post by danieLion »

BlueLotus wrote:
Ben wrote:It depends whether you mean clinical depression or sadness/melancholy.
And if you are looking for a scientific/medical explanation, a Buddhist explanation, a combination or something else.
Can you give a Buddhist explanation to clinical depression please?
Yes, can you?
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cbonanno
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Re: cause of depression

Post by cbonanno »

befriend wrote:what are the factors that cause depression, is it inverted rage or amplified sadness. or hate.
what is depression made out of
metta, Befriend
Depression can be caused by both psychology and physiology. Drink enough beer and most people will show signs of depression, and the same will happen if one doed not get enough sunlight to make Vitamin D, so we know depression can have a chemical origin. Have a son pass away and it can spiral into clinical depression if one is not steeped in Right View, so we know it can be situational as well.

Keep in mind that The Eight Fold Path does not cure depression, it cures suffering and the depression cause by suffering. I still have depressions, I know it is biological because the genetics is very obvious in my family. But I can tell you that I do not SUFFER from depression anymore. The pain is still there but the suffering has been eased thanks to the Buddha's teachings.

If you try to cure depression with meditation you will fail. The fact that meditation rids depressive symptoms is just a side effect of practice.
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cbonanno
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Re: cause of depression

Post by cbonanno »

danieLion wrote:
BubbaBuddhist wrote:...brain chemistry vs. thought processes...
Could be a false dichotomy.
Could be...? :)
danieLion
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Re: cause of depression

Post by danieLion »

cbonanno wrote:The fact that meditation rids depressive symptoms is just a side effect of practice.
So "side effects" and "cures" are mutually exclusive?
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retrofuturist
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Re: cause of depression

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
danieLion wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:
Ben wrote:It depends whether you mean clinical depression or sadness/melancholy.
And if you are looking for a scientific/medical explanation, a Buddhist explanation, a combination or something else.
Can you give a Buddhist explanation to clinical depression please?
Yes, can you?
Just throwing this out there for your consideration (so please don't try to "debate" me on it - I'm not here for that)...

Sloth (thīna), Torpor (middha)
http://www.zolag.co.uk/Cetasikas/html_n ... Doubt.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
danieLion
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Re: cause of depression

Post by danieLion »

Retro,
I think you've made a good connection. I'm going to think about it for a while. Please feel free to remind me if I forget to come back to this.
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cbonanno
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Re: cause of depression

Post by cbonanno »

danieLion wrote:
cbonanno wrote:The fact that meditation rids depressive symptoms is just a side effect of practice.
So "side effects" and "cures" are mutually exclusive?
Maybe to word it differently...one needs to make curing depression a side effect of practice and not the goal.

edited to add this link I ran across today:
http://www.tricycle.com/cushion/goalless-practice" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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BlueLotus
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Re: cause of depression

Post by BlueLotus »

danieLion wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:
Ben wrote:It depends whether you mean clinical depression or sadness/melancholy.
And if you are looking for a scientific/medical explanation, a Buddhist explanation, a combination or something else.
Can you give a Buddhist explanation to clinical depression please?
Yes, can you?
So what is it please? I asked because I don't know. I have suffered depression a lot.
danieLion
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Re: cause of depression

Post by danieLion »

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,
BlueLotus wrote:
Ben wrote:It depends whether you mean clinical depression or sadness/melancholy.
And if you are looking for a scientific/medical explanation, a Buddhist explanation, a combination or something else.
Can you give a Buddhist explanation to clinical depression please?

Just throwing this out there for your consideration (so please don't try to "debate" me on it - I'm not here for that)...

Sloth (thīna), Torpor (middha)
http://www.zolag.co.uk/Cetasikas/html_n ... Doubt.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Metta,
Retro. :)
BlueLotus: To clarify: "clinical" is just a fancy way of saying empirical/not just theoretical. Patients are part of the clinical analysis process, and participate in clarifying the meaning of empircal evidence/observations and interventions results.

Retro, BlueLotus: Moping, lying or sitting around all day, staying in bed to hide from the world, and other sloth-and-torpor like behaviors may not be a cause of depression in an "ultimate" sense, but usually if not always make it worse. Most clinical psychologists agree (a bit of "Weasling" here on my part, I'll admit, but only for brevity's sake). So, here is (in part) a clinical explanation of a cause--or contributing factor if you prefer--of depression.
danieLion
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Re: cause of depression

Post by danieLion »

1) Congnitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) is a clinical explanation of depression.
2) CBT and the Buddha are in approximate agreement about role of the mind in creating depression.
3) Therefore, CBT is an approximate Buddhist clinical explanation of the cause(s) of depression.
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cooran
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Re: cause of depression

Post by cooran »

Hello all,

What is CBT?
http://www.aacbt.org/viewStory/WHAT+IS+CBT%3F" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
PeterB
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Re: cause of depression

Post by PeterB »

danieLion wrote:1) Congnitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) is a clinical explanation of depression.
2) CBT and the Buddha are in approximate agreement about role of the mind in creating depression.
3) Therefore, CBT is an approximate Buddhist clinical explanation of the cause(s) of depression.
A Psychiatrist and Cognitive Therapist who has in the past had much contact with Buddhadhamma writes :smile:

Cognitive Behaviour Therapy is not a clinical explanation of depression.
It is a response to depression and some other conditions, which is effective for some subjects, and highly effective in some cases.
But the causes of depression are various, and some types of depression do not respond to CBT or any kind of " talking therapy "
The clinical explanations of depression address a spectrum of causality.
The treatment of those types of depression which are the result of faulty learning, which is basically what CBT addresses, are compatible with increased mindfulness.

:anjali:
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BubbaBuddhist
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Re: cause of depression

Post by BubbaBuddhist »

:offtopic: Hey Peter wow man, good to see you again. I will now return to the balcony to watch. :focus:

BB
Author of Redneck Buddhism: or Will You Reincarnate as Your Own Cousin?
PeterB
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Re: cause of depression

Post by PeterB »

Hi there John... :toast: I'll be on the balcony too... :smile:
danieLion
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Re: cause of depression

Post by danieLion »

PeterB wrote:
danieLion wrote:1) Congnitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) is a clinical explanation of depression.
2) CBT and the Buddha are in approximate agreement about role of the mind in creating depression.
3) Therefore, CBT is an approximate Buddhist clinical explanation of the cause(s) of depression.
A Psychiatrist and Cognitive Therapist who has in the past had much contact with Buddhadhamma writes :smile:
Please cite a name, otherwise I'll treat this as hearsay.
PeterB wrote:Cognitive Behaviour Therapy is not a clinical explanation of depression.
This doesn't address the logic of the syllogism.
PeterB wrote:But the causes of depression are various
Incorrect. They're mostly caused by cognitive disrortions rooted in greed/passion/desire, hate/anger/aversion and inappropriate-attention/ignorance/delusion.
PeterB wrote:and some types of depression do not respond to CBT or any kind of " talking therapy"
First, the amount of people CBT doesn't work for isn't statistically significant. Second: if this therapist knew what he or she was talking about, he or she would know that CBT is not a "talk therapy" and that term "talk therapy" is a useless concept. Psychiatrists usally believe in such nonsense so as to prevent feeling cogntively dissonant about their overestimations of the efficacy of "drug therapy."
PeterB wrote:The clinical explanations of depression address a spectrum of causality.
That depends on what's meant by "address."
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