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the great rebirth debate - Page 149 - Dhamma Wheel

the great rebirth debate

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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tiltbillings
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:47 pm

Any "debate" with Kevin Solway about rebirth will happen in linked thread only: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=15146

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Spiny Norman
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Spiny Norman » Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:55 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
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Javi
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Javi » Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:28 am

Vayadhammā saṅkhārā appamādena sampādethā — All things decay and disappoint, it is through vigilance that you succeed — Mahāparinibbāna Sutta

Tārakā timiraṃ dīpo māyāvaśyāya budbudaḥ supinaṃ vidyud abhraṃ ca evaṃ draṣṭavya saṃskṛtam — A shooting star, a clouding of the sight, a lamp, An illusion, a drop of dew, a bubble, A dream, a lightning’s flash, a thunder cloud — This is the way one should see the conditioned — Vajracchedikā Prajñāpāramitā

I have seen all things that are done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and a chase after wind — Ecclesiastes 1.14

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Spiny Norman
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Spiny Norman » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:13 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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seeker242
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby seeker242 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:14 pm

I see no reason to doubt that it should be taken literally. Some people say it should be taken literally. Some people say it should be taken metaphorically. As if the two are mutually exclusive. I think both would be the most accurate!

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Javi
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Javi » Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:11 pm

Also I think that if you think about it, you can also take it literally in a different way and it makes sense. Here's my thought, is it possible that there are actually spiritual places where one is 'reborn' into, with god like beings and hell demons? If we think about it in the way they are depicted in ancient Indian myth, it sounds a bit absurd. However, is it possible that there are other worlds with other forms of sentient life? Of course it is, that is the basis for most science fiction films. :alien: There is even a 'string theory' that posits multiple universes. Also it seems rational that these places would be subject to the same physical and natural laws, thus they would likely experience impermanence, conflict and suffering. It doesn't seem like a stretch either to imagine one of these beings becoming wise to the arising of their suffering as attachment to impermanent things and finding a way out for them - a Buddha to so speak :quote:
I think the really important point is that the universe is vast and timeless and suffering is natural part of it.

Anyways if I felt I had to take this literally, this is the direction I would go. Though I wouldn't discount actual deva realms and hell realms either I mean who knows these things. :juggling:
Vayadhammā saṅkhārā appamādena sampādethā — All things decay and disappoint, it is through vigilance that you succeed — Mahāparinibbāna Sutta

Tārakā timiraṃ dīpo māyāvaśyāya budbudaḥ supinaṃ vidyud abhraṃ ca evaṃ draṣṭavya saṃskṛtam — A shooting star, a clouding of the sight, a lamp, An illusion, a drop of dew, a bubble, A dream, a lightning’s flash, a thunder cloud — This is the way one should see the conditioned — Vajracchedikā Prajñāpāramitā

I have seen all things that are done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and a chase after wind — Ecclesiastes 1.14

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BlueLotus
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby BlueLotus » Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:42 pm


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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Moth » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:25 pm

Listening to the stories of supposed arahant monks of the Thai Forest Tradition, they speak of their experiences with ghosts and devas in a rather manner-of-fact way. I see no reason why there would NOT be imperceptible beings such as ghosts and devas, what a sad existence this would be if human beings were the pinnacle form of it.
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Spiny Norman
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Spiny Norman » Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:37 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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Aloka
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Aloka » Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:31 pm


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BlueLotus
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby BlueLotus » Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:11 pm


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Spiny Norman
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Spiny Norman » Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:11 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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Spiny Norman
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Spiny Norman » Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:14 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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BlueLotus
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby BlueLotus » Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:57 pm


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Spiny Norman
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Spiny Norman » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:15 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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daverupa
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby daverupa » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:36 pm

It doesn't really bear on hell and ghost realms, though. Analysis and comprehension of paticcasamuppada isn't tied to cosmology.

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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Nyana » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:46 pm


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daverupa
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby daverupa » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:54 pm


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Spiny Norman
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Spiny Norman » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:58 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

Nyana
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Nyana » Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:06 pm



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