no one thinks the sutta quote i posted has any relevance to this discussion? strange. i feel like i've seen a large debate about it's meaning somewhere before... or perhaps an article? not sure why no one thinks anything of it here. oh well. i guess i'll never know what is up with it, odd and uncharacteristic to the rest of the canon as it is.
i'm trying to remember, i feel like i read an article called "not a place under the sea" that discussed the implications of this sutta in relation to the idea of hell, but a web search returns nothing...
here is an EXTREMELY free translation of that sutta excerpt from dhammawiki :
'“When the average ignorant person makes an assertion that there is a Hell under the ocean (or other freezing or burning, fire ridden place), he is making a statement that is false and without basis. The word 'hell' is a term for painful bodily sensations.” Samyutta Nikaya 36.4"
i don't speak pali, but i'm fairly certain it in no way says or implies "(or other freezing or burning, fire ridden place)"
and i see no other translations out there where they translate "bottomless abyss" as "hell". whoever wrote this article clearly believes this sutta is the buddha saying, flat out, that hell does not exist. however if i'm wrong and it does translate directly to this then this sutta completely and undeniably proves that the buddha taught, at least on one occasion, that there is no such place as hell and that it is only a metaphor for bodily suffering!
that being said: it is VERY relevant to this discussion, probably the most relevant and definitive post yet for this thread. i'm not talking up my writing but the striking words of the sutta and their implications for the topic at hand! this excerpt could literally be the one and only definitive answer to this post, from the buddha's own lips no less. again, not saying anything about me, it's about the sutta! it's nearly an exact answer for this specific thread. not to mention i've pondered this sutta alone for years and now would be a perfect time for someone to discuss it!
you are all silly people if you don't notice this
just playing around, no offense to anyone
but seriously, what do you all think about this sutta???
edit: if someone has already posted that excerpt in this thread and it's old hat now,
sorry, i simply don't have time to read all 9 pages of this thread.