RIP, Jacintha Saldana

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Annapurna
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RIP, Jacintha Saldana

Postby Annapurna » Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:33 pm

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Re: RIP, Jacintha Saldana

Postby pilgrim » Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:18 am

Before the tragedy, most people thought it was funny. Unfortunately, the world will continue to think that frivolous talk is entertainment.

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Re: RIP, Jacintha Saldana

Postby plwk » Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:13 am

Anicca, dukkha, anatta :candle:
Bhikkhus, if you develop and make much this one thing,
it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction.
What is it? It is recollecting the Enlightened One.
If this single thing is recollected and made much,
it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction.

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Re: RIP, Jacintha Saldana

Postby Annapurna » Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:56 pm

pilgrim wrote:Before the tragedy, most people thought it was funny. Unfortunately, the world will continue to think that frivolous talk is entertainment.


Did you..? I guess not. Neither did I. I felt very sorry for the nurse, thinking of the consequences she might suffer.

I thought she might get scolded by the hospital, she might get mocked for her naivity, and she might get laughed at and harrassed by the press and media.

I put myself into her shoes:

I's think: "My gosh, it's the QUEEN! I be extremely respectful and friendly and obliging, -so, how can I tell her: "I can't tell you how Kate is, I am not authorized!".

...what if you are simple girl, with no academic raffinesse, without a cunning mind that thinks of intrigues and pranks....what if you just want to help the suffering and see a lot of it....pranks are far from your mind in a hospital, at least for me, when I worked there.

I just think it's sooo sad when people throw away their life because of such a silly thing.

I am thin skinned, because I attended a funeral a few days where a former friend killed himself too, leaving his family devastated.
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Re: RIP, Jacintha Saldana

Postby Annapurna » Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:59 pm

Sorry for the missing words, and can't add them, so I hope you understand what I meant.
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Re: RIP, Jacintha Saldana

Postby Yana » Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:36 am

I hope that wherever she is she will be happy :candle: :anjali:
Life is preparing for Death

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Re: RIP, Jacintha Saldana

Postby Ben » Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:55 am

I read in the paper this morning that the 'prank' was given the ok by the radio station's lawyers before it was aired.
Its really awful and a disgrace and indicative of the complete lack of morals or sensitivity of radio presenters in this country.
We seem to have some real noteworthy specimens from the shallow end of the gene pool on the radio in Australia.
And what will the radio station do? Make an announcement that the presenters will be off the air, then some weeks or months later quietly reinstate them.
Meanwhile, the radio station capitalizes on the increase in audience share as a result of the controversy.
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

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Re: RIP, Jacintha Saldana

Postby Modus.Ponens » Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:14 am

First let me say that the death by (suposed) suicide is indeed unfortunate. I wish her a good rebirth and to those who stay, a fast recovery for their personal tragedy.

However, I can't understand those who feel outraged by this prank. It's all that was: a prank. And no one in the world could predict this outcome. So saying things like "You have blood in your hands" is ridiculous. No one is to blame for a death in this situation.

Furthermore, I find the article disgustingly biased. It crucifies those who made the prank and those who work in the station as just a bit less than murderers. And the situation where the teenager says she was raped was totaly taken advantage of, by this news site. They later explain that imediatly after she said she was raped they stoped the whole thing. I find this type of journalism more outrageous than a prank done by a couple of guys who just wanted to get a laugh and get away with an innocent hoax.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

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Re: RIP, Jacintha Saldana

Postby Ben » Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:29 am

Greetings MP,

You need to appreciate the context in which this incident occured.
Its one of perceived immunity from any kind of accountability.
Google Kyle Sandilands and Alan Jones.
kind regards,

Ben
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR
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e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com

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Re: RIP, Jacintha Saldana

Postby Mr Man » Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:02 am

I guess a lesson we can learn from this is that we really should try and be vigilant. The outcome of the prank couldn't be predicted but it is now something that the two broadcasters have to live with and except a degree of responsibility for.

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Re: RIP, Jacintha Saldana

Postby Kim OHara » Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:08 pm

Mr Man wrote:I guess a lesson we can learn from this is that we really should try and be vigilant. The outcome of the prank couldn't be predicted but it is now something that the two broadcasters have to live with and except a degree of responsibility for.

The hoax was thoughtless, pointless and potentially dangerous and offensive. The pranksters' employers also bear some responsibility.

The nurse was (at least) not as cautious as she should have been, copped more blame for it than she deserved, and has paid a greater price than she should have.
Her employers bear far greater responsibility than the radio station but have not - to my knowledge - been called to account for it. Every hospital in our (Aussie) system has strong rules on patient confidentiality and I assume the same is true in the UK, and it is the hospital's responsibility - to the patients and their families - to have training and protocols in place which prevent this kind of unauthorised release of information even when a staff member is liable to make a poor judgement call. Maybe especially then.

:namaste:
Kim

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Re: RIP, Jacintha Saldana

Postby Mr Man » Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:17 pm

Kim O'Hara wrote:Her employers bear far greater responsibility than the radio station

I don't agree. Perhaps the hospital needs to review it's internal procedures but in my opinion the hospital was also a victim.

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Re: RIP, Jacintha Saldana

Postby seahorse » Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:40 pm

I have held the nurse and her family close in my thoughts today. The depth of suffering Jacintha must have experienced to end her life must have been horrendous.

I also read that the two presenters have been shattered by events, and been referred to a counsellor. So whilst I can see it was they who handled the actual delivery of a cruel and unnecessary prank, they themselves have also been badly burned by it. A few years ago I would have condemned them for the part they played, but now I am of the opinion that I should cultivate compassion for them, as they have experienced the suffering so inate in this world.

For me this is a clear example of how we must closely guard our speech and actions. Unless it is kind and true, do not say or do it - I believe a wise one said.

In the UK there is much discussion around the ethics of the media and this is a timely example of much of the debate.

Everyone is a victim in this. When unskilful actions occur, we all lose.

Just my two penneth.
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Re: RIP, Jacintha Saldana

Postby manas » Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:39 am

Ben wrote:I read in the paper this morning that the 'prank' was given the ok by the radio station's lawyers before it was aired.
Its really awful and a disgrace and indicative of the complete lack of morals or sensitivity of radio presenters in this country.
We seem to have some real noteworthy specimens from the shallow end of the gene pool on the radio in Australia.
And what will the radio station do? Make an announcement that the presenters will be off the air, then some weeks or months later quietly reinstate them.
Meanwhile, the radio station capitalizes on the increase in audience share as a result of the controversy.


Ben, I completely agree with what you say, and as I again recollect all this, I am having to be mindful of a tense and sick feeling in my gut. But, I need to take a deep breath and remember that this is all the turning of the wheel of kamma...every thought, spoken word and action will have a consequence in the future. In this way, the thoughtlessness, lack of sensitivity and even callousness of how all this unfolded, hopefully won't lead to anger towards the perpretrators (on whichever level) - because I must admit, that was my initial reaction. How I wish that more people actually cared about others, yes even just an ordinary stranger on the other side of the world, and considered how their words might affect them, before going ahead and saying them. That ordinary stranger was a wife and mother - now missed and grieved for deeply by her family. May Jacintha Saldana's good actions throughout her life now protect her as she journeys on.

:candle:

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Re: RIP, Jacintha Saldana

Postby Annapurna » Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:36 pm

Following teachings of the Buddha came to mind:

1. Right speech.

A prank is a lie. Do you agree? It's not the truth!
You pretend something that is not true, and try to fool someone for amusement.

I am sure the Buddha would have heartily disagreed with this prank.

2. Intention: ...that's interesting.

Obviously, they did not intend this. So, in a way, they can't be blamed for Jacintha's suicide, but well for all that led to it.

The Buddha discouraged all sorts of entertainment issues...and that's their biz.

It can bring joy to the ill, if it's all done nicely, but, due to the worldwide press, Jacintha felt utterly shamed, humiliated and like she had lost her face forever, and this is really true.

Until the end of her life, she would have gotten confronted with it.

Then, nurses have a very hard job and need to feel a lot of devotion to hold out this hard work.

Lots of people in nursing jobs suffer from burn-out syndrome sooner or later.

Jacintha was 46, not so young anymore.

On some photos where she looked older, I saw dangerous signs of depletion of her "Chi", life energy, alarmingly so, ...google her and look at the darkness around her eyes, the dark brown shadows.

That's a sign of Chi or Agni depletion.

It's one possible explanation why she took his life, after a thing that many would have shrugged off, after a while of feeling stressed.

But when you have exploited your body for too long, small things can tip a boat over...expecvially when people are very conscientious.

Truly tragic...

PS: I agree with Ben (not only ) in this:

We have mass media reporters (here too), who take things too lightly.

They don't seem to know when fun was had or is going way too far.

And, the legal bureau is OF COURSE more guilty than these young, immature mods, whose trademark it might have be to entertain people with silly stuff!

The lawyers failed to foresee some stuff, which CAN be foreseen!

It was PREDICTABLE, that someone might get into mighty trouble, if fooled!
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Re: RIP, Jacintha Saldana

Postby beeblebrox » Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:40 pm

Annapurna wrote:Following teachings of the Buddha came to mind:

1. Right speech.

A prank is a lie. Do you agree? It's not the truth!
You pretend something that is not true, and try to fool someone for amusement.

I am sure the Buddha would have heartily disagreed with this prank.

2. Intention: ...that's interesting.

Obviously, they did not intend this. So, in a way, they can't be blamed for Jacintha's suicide, but well for all that led to it.

The Buddha discouraged all sorts of entertainment issues...and that's their biz.


Hi Annapurna, I agree that this is terrible, and could've been prevented from happening... but I don't think it's really right for us to try push these onto others, especially the ones who are not themselves practitioners.

I think that there are still a few things that we can do, though... which is to educate by example, like how we live our own lives... or maybe make ourselves available as a support to those who were involved... just a couple of wholesome examples of what to do with our practice.

:anjali:

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Re: RIP, Jacintha Saldana

Postby Annapurna » Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:16 pm

Who' s pushing what?

I am merely analysing/discussing this happening amongst Buddhists, on a Buddhist board!

So lets not confuse this with attacking them.

It's a situation that is utterly tragic, -a harmless, thoughtless, unmindful prank had results nobody dreamt of.

But it could have been preventedm indeed.

An old Roman saying goes like this:

"Quidquid agis, prudenter agas, et respice finem."

"Whatever you do, do it wisely, and think of the end."

This was one of the teachings my father confronted me with early, as a child and it helped me to think far ahead, and remove myself from situations where the outcome could be bad, as well as warn others.

It could be I am alive only because of this, knwoung what comes from what.

Big things come fromn small thingsm an avalanche can be the result of a snowball.

Nobody wanted it, but people just didn't THINK.

Not deeply enough anyway.

And I may sound obnoxious, but people who have raised kids usually see a little bit further than:

"Just a harmless joke."

It was PREDICTABLE, highly PROBABLE, think of the law of Murphy, that there might be someone on the phone who is not an intellectual heavy weight, who is basically under a mild shock when she hears the QUEEN, and wishes to cater to her every wish.

That's something a lot of simple people would do...

and then to make this public and have a good worldwide laugh at the expense of a poor simple mind is something I personally don't fibd funny,.

I didn't like it when I first heard it, and thought:

Oh-oh...

The nurse is going to get a lot of problems, disciplinary action, BIG TIME, royal family, unthinkable scandal!!

That was clear.

Things like that destroy lives, literally so, and if they are on the air, they should be mature enough to deal with human beings in a sensitive, responsible and considerate way.

that's just my opinion....
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Re: RIP, Jacintha Saldana

Postby Annapurna » Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:31 pm

Kim O'Hara wrote:
Mr Man wrote:I guess a lesson we can learn from this is that we really should try and be vigilant. The outcome of the prank couldn't be predicted but it is now something that the two broadcasters have to live with and except a degree of responsibility for.

The hoax was thoughtless, pointless and potentially dangerous and offensive. The pranksters' employers also bear some responsibility.

The nurse was (at least) not as cautious as she should have been, copped more blame for it than she deserved, and has paid a greater price than she should have.
Her employers bear far greater responsibility than the radio station but have not - to my knowledge - been called to account for it. Every hospital in our (Aussie) system has strong rules on patient confidentiality and I assume the same is true in the UK, and it is the hospital's responsibility - to the patients and their families - to have training and protocols in place which prevent this kind of unauthorised release of information even when a staff member is liable to make a poor judgement call. Maybe especially then.

:namaste:
Kim


Usually people are briefed in that way, esp when the reigning Queen is in the picture.

But Jacintha wasn't usually answering the phone. She helped out.

She probably couldn't tell the wrong accent due t her Indian ethnicity.

She was totally flabberghasted she had the Queen on the phone, HER QUEEN. A simple mind like she was is dumbfounded, afraid to make a mistake, eager to please...eager to be of best service to someone royal.

Remember, she ain't a white smart Alec. She is simple folks who feel insecure around Royalty.

To have failed the Royal Family must have shamed her beyond imagination.
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Re: RIP, Jacintha Saldana

Postby beeblebrox » Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:32 pm

Annapurna wrote:Who' s pushing what?

I am merely analysing/discussing this happening amongst Buddhists, on a Buddhist board!


Annapurna, I apologize.

:anjali:

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Re: RIP, Jacintha Saldana

Postby corrine » Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:50 pm

Thoughtless speech is always problematic. Unfortunately, in this day and age, and maybe always, there have been those who think that words are benign. That we can say anything that pops into our minds because it is only words. I, on the other hand, believe that words are the most powerful weapons that humans possess and that it is incumbent upon each and every one of us to consider carefully before speaking. Once said, words can never be recalled.

I think that adults must be held to account for the damage that their words cause. No, I do not believe in controlling speech. To the contrary, I believe that we all have the right to say or write whatever we wish. However, we need to be responsible for the fallout of our words. After all, if you holler 'fire' in a crowded theater causing people to panic and lives to be lost, you must be held accountable. If not legally, then certainly morally.

Words are precious. They can bring so much good or so much pain. The right word at the correct time, can make any situation better. The wrong word can cause incalculable harm. So we need to think before we speak. And if someone is badly hurt by our words, we need to step up and take responsibility. Just because a lawyer says that something is legal, does not make it okay. It just makes it legal. Maybe. None of us needs to ask a lawyer what we should or shouldn't say. I believe that we all know the difference between right and wrong speech. When we bring lawyers into it, we are just trying to pass the blame.

I am praying for this poor woman and most especially for her family. I cannot begin to imagine their pain. All because of a 'prank'. How very very sad.

corrine


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