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Why the criticisms? - Dhamma Wheel

Why the criticisms?

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
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badscooter
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Why the criticisms?

Postby badscooter » Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:55 pm

Quick question:
Why are there so many criticisms about the Mahasi technique out there?
Which parts of the technique are based off the suttas? And which part is based off of the commentaries? Can anyone help with this question?

With metta
"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"

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retrofuturist
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Re: Why the criticisms?

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:43 pm

Greetings Billymac,

Do you care to provide some examples, so we can address specifics rather than deal in generalisations?

Personally speaking, one reason I don't follow a Mahasi style practice ( a more comprehensive explanation of my reasoning is here - viewtopic.php?f=16&t=10653&start=240#p164576 ) is because it is rooted in the commentarial ditthi (views) of momentariness and kalapas, and I do not find either to accord with the Buddha's teachings or my own experience. But that's just my perspective - other people may think it's the bee's knees and get great benefit from it, so good for them.

:meditate:

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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tiltbillings
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Re: Why the criticisms?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:06 pm


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badscooter
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Re: Why the criticisms?

Postby badscooter » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:36 am

"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"

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daverupa
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Re: Why the criticisms?

Postby daverupa » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:56 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: Why the criticisms?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:58 am

Greetings BIllymac,

If it's curiosity alone that's driving your investigation (rather than an intent to investigate the Mahasi technique with the view to applying it) I'd suggest this...

The path of practice the Buddha taught is the Noble Eightfold Path. If you believe a particular practice/method/technique/activity/exercise supports the fulfilment of that path, then by all means do it - if you believe it doesn't or that there's something that works better for you, then don't do it. Each of the aspects of the Noble Eightfold Path are well detailed by the Buddha, and you can evaluate for yourself, whether a given activity helps cultivate those components for you. The important thing is the personal fulfilment of the Noble Eightfold Path.

This is why I'd rather not trade in "criticisms" because "criticisms" infer some kind of independent hands-off objectivity, like a scholarly debate, where there's pros & cons, rights & wrong... whereas I think the important thing in matters like this is actually the subjective element, and how it works for you. I've explained why Mahasi-vipassana doesn't work for me personally, but that doesn't constitute a criticism... that only constitutes why it's not for me. Some people do follow a Mahasi technique and presumably they do so because it works for them. Whilst I think it's quite obvious from the sum of your two posts that you mean no harm through your investigation, harm can arise unintentionally if people feel that something valuable is being degraded or unjustly criticised, and as you observed, the Mahasi method is often already criticised as it is... therefore, if there's no practical personal application for you in the answers you seek, it might be worth reflecting on the net benefit of the question and whether it's best left set aside in the interests of others.

All the best.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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badscooter
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Re: Why the criticisms?

Postby badscooter » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:11 am

"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"

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Re: Why the criticisms?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:12 am


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Ben
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Re: Why the criticisms?

Postby Ben » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:37 am

Hi Billymac

If you have confidence in what you are doing and that confidence is grounded in experienced benefits - then continue with it.
kind regards,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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badscooter
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Re: Why the criticisms?

Postby badscooter » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:51 am

Thanks ben, retro, tilt, dave... I guess I was just searching for more canonical evidence of my practice to quiet the critics

May all be well
"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"

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Re: Why the criticisms?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:12 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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tiltbillings
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Re: Why the criticisms?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:07 am


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Re: Why the criticisms?

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:27 am


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badscooter
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Re: Why the criticisms?

Postby badscooter » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:39 pm

"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"

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Re: Why the criticisms?

Postby badscooter » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:42 pm

"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"

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Re: Why the criticisms?

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:15 am


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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Why the criticisms?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:13 pm

• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

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purple planet
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Re: Why the criticisms?

Postby purple planet » Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:53 pm

Without straying to much - i think that this might help understand :

Can we say that the goal can be to get rid of the defilments (and that will automaticlly lead to nirvana) ? and if so it might be a good way to judge a technique is by how affective it is removing defilments

i practice in the mahasi style and i think one nice think about it is for a beginner it is more acceptable because you arnt told to focus on something just to note things as they are : so its easier to think of it as : ohh im just trying to see reality as is not focusing on some object like breathing its noticing things as is - it raises less doubts this way for a beginner

i understand now the general idea of all methods but as a beginner its raises less question as to how looking at the breath will help me "see" reality (again - i understand how but for a doubtful beginner just at the start its helpful)
Please send merit to my dog named Mika who has passed away - thanks in advance

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Re: Why the criticisms?

Postby badscooter » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:27 pm

"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"

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Re: Why the criticisms?

Postby badscooter » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:30 pm

"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"


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