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the great rebirth debate - Page 158 - Dhamma Wheel

the great rebirth debate

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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beeblebrox
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby beeblebrox » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:49 pm

Last edited by beeblebrox on Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Spiny Norman » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:51 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Nyana » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:54 pm


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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Spiny Norman » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:57 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Spiny Norman » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:09 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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Aloka
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Aloka » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:20 pm


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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Spiny Norman » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:28 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Spiny Norman » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:34 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby santa100 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:34 pm


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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Spiny Norman » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:39 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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Aloka
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Aloka » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:57 pm


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daverupa
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby daverupa » Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:28 pm


alan...
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby alan... » Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:57 pm

it really doesn't matter. the dhamma is not about rebirth or realms or any of that stuff. the buddha taught again and again that that speculation on that stuff is pointless and that we should simply practice practice practice, tame the mind and use it to see through reality itself. one can reach nibbana without any knowledge of rebirth/realms! in the suttas that knowledge is actually called "mundane", meaning it falls in with knowledge of books or outer space, what's in the deep trenches of the oceans, and so on. only nibbana is "supramundane" and one can seek it while leaving everything else aside.

trying to work out rebirth/realms is chasing your own tail, only nibbana is going in the right direction.

for example a yogi who has seen his past lives, the history of the universe, gods, etc. would be considered enlightened in almost all other traditions, but in buddhism that alone is not enlightenment. only nibbana is and it's not even related to that stuff. all of the mystical knowledge, be it real or fake, is useless in the long run. even the "gods" with their supposed MASS amounts of knowledge and absurdly long life spans are said to be deluded and beneath nibbana.


nibbana and the hell, hungry ghost realms (and heavenly, etc. etc.) are totally separate and unrelated. the buddha taught the path to nibbana as the main and most supreme goal. that is all we need. if the realms spur some people on then great. if others don't want to believe but still want to seek nibbana, equally great. actually one could argue that one who is tied up with the realms and always seeking information on them or meditating and trying to experience them is running astray and should be focusing on nibbana instead and should forget that stuff.

nibbana is. everything else is irrelevant, unrelated, a flash in the pan, a bubble of foam, a lightning strike, an illusion, a dream about to vanish.

TO THE OP: i'm not even talking to you directly at this point, just so you know. just addressing this issue as a whole and the discussion it has become. i don't want you to think i'm trying to lecture you or implying that you are running astray by learning about the realms or whatever or any of the things discussed above, they are just examples and nothing to do with you or anyone in particular, just a hypothetical imaginary practitioner(s) :heart:.

Papashaw
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Papashaw » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:26 am

I feel a lot of compassion for beings in hell if there was a place, the torture wouldn't hurt as much as the boredom of being there for a 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000..... years.

I feel strong fury whenever i see someone hurt anyone in this world. If I were to encounter hell as a observer I would be extremely driven to any sort of action possible, I would stand between a torturer and a hellbeing and refuse to even move. I understand actions sends someone to a lower place for a disproportionate time, but it should not be that way. Yama is so easily mistaken for some torturer god willing to please himself and his minions with the sights of horrible cruel slasher movie scenes. :stirthepot:

The attitude i notice here is that of "Oh sucks for that guy, lucky I found buddhism" instead of strong sympathy or pity if somewhere to go to a lower realm. In tibetan buddhism prayers are said for those in the lower realms to relieve their suffering, I guess in theravada though if someone ends up there they are fudged and worth forgetting as they have their intestine ripped out and blood fried longer than they have lived as a human.

Oh i feel so much passion, I must let go of it and not indulge it. I am spouting drivel for provoking other peoples replies to my views to better understand what is right and wrong. This must be the last time.

I do not see how even killing a single parent is equal to being in avici for 10^18 years having your skin burned and torn apart for a trillion trillion trillion years, I know my father or mother would forgive me but karma is blind and unfair, it is the way it is.

alan...
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby alan... » Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:51 am


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Spiny Norman
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Spiny Norman » Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:58 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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Spiny Norman
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Spiny Norman » Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:04 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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Aloka
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Aloka » Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:10 am


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Spiny Norman
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Spiny Norman » Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:25 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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Aloka
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Aloka » Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:36 am



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