the great rebirth debate

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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BlueLotus
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

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Ben
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Ben » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:21 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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BlueLotus
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby BlueLotus » Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:00 am


vinasp
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby vinasp » Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:15 am

Hi everyone,

Spontaneous Arising - What is it?

"... there are beings who are reborn spontaneously ..." [BB, MLDB, page 935, MN 117.7]

The word in the original Pali is opapatika, the old PED entry reads as follows:

Opapātika (adj.) [fr. upapatti; the BSk. form is a curious distortion of the P. form, viz. aupapāduka Av. Ś ii.89 Divy 300, 627, 649] arisen or reborn without visible cause (i. e. without parents), spontaneous rebirth (Kvu trsl. 2832), apparitional rebirth (Cpd. 1654, q. v.) D i.27 55, 156; iii.132, 230 (˚yoni), 265; M i.34, 73, 287, 401 sq., 436 sq, 465 sq.; ii.52; iii.22, 80, 247; S iii.206 240 sq., 246 sq.; iv.348; v.346, 357 sq., 406; A i.232 245, 269; ii.5, 89, 186; iv.12, 226, 399, 423 sq.; v. 265 sq., 286 sq., 343 sq.; Pug 16, 62, 63; Vbh 412 sq. Miln 267; Vism 552 sq., 559; DA i.165, 313. The C on M i.34 explns. by "sesa -- yoni -- paṭikkhepa -- vacanaŋ etaŋ" See also Pug. A 1, § 40.

"...arisen or reborn without visible cause (i.e. without parents), spontaneous rebirth,
apparitional rebirth ..."

MN 12.32 explains the 'four kinds of generation' of beings. There is the egg-born
generation, womb-born generation, moisture-born generation, and spontaneous generation.

"What is spontaneous generation? There are gods and denizens of hell and certain human beings and some beings in the lower worlds; this is called spontaneous generation."
[BB, MLDB, page 169, MN 12.33]

I find this part of the teachings very difficult to understand. It seems that the beings
in the hells, and some (or all?) gods, are spontaneously arisen. Which means born without
the aid of parents. And yet some of these beings have bodies.

Question: Where do they get their bodies from?

Regards, Vincent.

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BlueLotus
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby BlueLotus » Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:56 am


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BlueLotus
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

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tiltbillings
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

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tiltbillings
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

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santa100
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

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robertk
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby robertk » Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:01 am

I merged the 'rebirth' and 'hell and hungry ghosts' topics as arguments on both sides are similar.

alan...
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Spiny Norman » Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:25 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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Spiny Norman
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Spiny Norman » Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:28 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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daverupa
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

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