how do you enter jhana?

Discussion of Samatha bhavana and Jhana bhavana.

how do you enter jhana?

Postby alan... » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:26 am

what is your step by step process?

what does it feel like?

what do you do during? afterwards?

how many jhanas can you enter?

have you mastered any of them?

used them for specific purposes?

what are your goals?
Last edited by alan... on Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: how do you enter jhana?

Postby alan... » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:35 am

alan... wrote:what is your step by step process?

what does it feel like?

what do you do during? afterwards?

how many jhanas can you enter?

have you mastered any of them?

used them for specific purposes?

what are your goals?


i use anapanasati to enter access, then once i see the nimitta i let it engulf my consciousness and feel the bliss spread throughout my body. i kind of still watch my breath during this but it wavers as i am very much in the jhana. another method that i am wary of is where you drop the breath when you enter jhana, then you focus only on a pleasant feeling without any wanting for it to rise or cease (similar to the way you watch your breath), and it then is supposed to rise and you enter jhana. i have had this work extremely well a couple of times but the first method i listed works most often for me. also the second method i've only seen once in an article whereas the first is fairly close (key word "fairly" i realize it's not identical by any means) to the standard old school theravada approach.

it feels like total bliss with a few thoughts usually totally about the meditation itself floating up and disappearing every now and then.

during i usually just enjoy it thoughtlessly, sometimes i slip out of it to contemplate the root of thoughts. afterwards i trace the root of thoughts, contemplate consciousness, and other such mental things.

i can enter the first fairly easy, how long and how strong it is is extremely variable. the second one i have entered once for about twenty minutes and it was incredible, ten times the first one but seeing as i am far from mastering the first one i'm staying there for now.

i have not mastered even the first one yet.

i use them for wisdom, sharpening the blade of wisdom and then turning that blade on my delusions. this sounds dramatic but i'm using metaphoric language from the suttas, it mostly feels quite automatic. when my mind is sharp with jhana and i turn it on a thought, it just floats away like it's a balloon that someone cut the string on as i was looking at it.

goals are obviously nibbana only. but also i'm interested in mastering the fourth jhana and seeing my past lives as a means to test the idea as i'm not sure how i feel about all that and i'm positive nibbana exists. this is for fun only really, i don't see it as a serious goal, just a side trip.
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Re: how do you enter jhana?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:05 am

http://www.leighb.com/jhanas.htm

Tons of info here from a variety of differing perspectives.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: how do you enter jhana?

Postby alan... » Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:47 am

thanks a lot!

that link is a freaking info treasure chest! really impressive stuff as well!
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Re: how do you enter jhana?

Postby DAWN » Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:12 pm

Detachement of mind + release and calm
Sabbe dhamma anatta
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I'am sorry for my english
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Re: how do you enter jhana?

Postby danieLion » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:54 pm

alan... wrote:what is your step by step process?

what does it feel like?

what do you do during? afterwards?

how many jhanas can you enter?

have you mastered any of them?

used them for specific purposes?

what are your goals?

IMO, these things are better kept to ourselves and our teachers. It's too easy to be misunderstood and/or envied. :spy: I will say, however, that I believe the purpose of inducing jhana is to induce vipassana, and that sometimes, vipassana can induce jhana. :stirthepot:
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Re: how do you enter jhana?

Postby DAWN » Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:37 pm

danieLion wrote:IMO, these things are better kept to ourselves and our teachers. It's too easy to be misunderstood and/or envied. :spy: I will say, however, that I believe the purpose of inducing jhana is to induce vipassana, and that sometimes, vipassana can induce jhana. :stirthepot:


It's true.

Some peoples feel some greed/jalousy when they hear about calm (jhana) of others.
And after that they are surprised "why i can not reach this calm, and he can? I'am better, so he misunderstand somethink, he is not realy calm, it's just make-up stuff"... And they try to do sometink, to broke, or explain that it's not good...
Bu answer is simple : greed.
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Re: how do you enter jhana?

Postby marc108 » Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:27 pm

danieLion wrote:IMO, these things are better kept to ourselves and our teachers.


i agree with this... but i would just add that between good friends it's ok too.
"It's easy for us to connect with what's wrong with us... and not so easy to feel into, or to allow us, to connect with what's right and what's good in us."
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Re: how do you enter jhana?

Postby David N. Snyder » Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:38 pm

danieLion wrote:IMO, these things are better kept to ourselves and our teachers.


I agree.

If your jhana experience is genuine, you are likely to receive scrutiny and/or ridicule from beginners.

If your jhana experience is not genuine, you are likely to receive scrutiny and examination from more advanced practitioners so that beginners are not misled.

Moral of this: keep it to yourself and your teacher.
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Re: how do you enter jhana?

Postby danieLion » Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:17 am

David N. Snyder wrote:
danieLion wrote:IMO, these things are better kept to ourselves and our teachers.


I agree.

If your jhana experience is genuine, you are likely to receive scrutiny and/or ridicule from beginners.

If your jhana experience is not genuine, you are likely to receive scrutiny and examination from more advanced practitioners so that beginners are not misled.

Moral of this: keep it to yourself and your teacher.

Holy crap! I'm in a discussion thread with lots of agreement? Pinching myself.
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Re: how do you enter jhana?

Postby alan... » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:07 am

danieLion wrote:
alan... wrote:what is your step by step process?

what does it feel like?

what do you do during? afterwards?

how many jhanas can you enter?

have you mastered any of them?

used them for specific purposes?

what are your goals?

IMO, these things are better kept to ourselves and our teachers. It's too easy to be misunderstood and/or envied. :spy: I will say, however, that I believe the purpose of inducing jhana is to induce vipassana, and that sometimes, vipassana can induce jhana. :stirthepot:



lolz i am being chastised for sharing my experiences and asking if others want to share! :roll:
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Re: how do you enter jhana?

Postby alan... » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:10 am

David N. Snyder wrote:
danieLion wrote:IMO, these things are better kept to ourselves and our teachers.


I agree.

If your jhana experience is genuine, you are likely to receive scrutiny and/or ridicule from beginners.

If your jhana experience is not genuine, you are likely to receive scrutiny and examination from more advanced practitioners so that beginners are not misled.

Moral of this: keep it to yourself and your teacher.



wow, this is ridiculous. i have no teacher, i live no where near any temples, this is my only place to share and get information. i can't believe you all have this attitude. sad sad.

and also. :roll:
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Re: how do you enter jhana?

Postby alan... » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:12 am

marc108 wrote:
danieLion wrote:IMO, these things are better kept to ourselves and our teachers.


i agree with this... but i would just add that between good friends it's ok too.



:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

i have no teacher, and no buddhist friends.

glad you are all so lucky to have these things. shame you all have to slam me for sharing and wanting to be shared with. :(
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Re: how do you enter jhana?

Postby Modus.Ponens » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:35 am

DanieLion, let me be the one to disagree.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: this forum has only one flaw. But it's a giant flaw. If you ask "how can I attain 1st jhana?" those who respond are usualy helpful. If you ask "how can I attain 2nd jhana?", the topic is going nowhere. The collective inquisition imediatly takes care of derailing the topic. If you ask "how can I get to the 2nd insight knowledge?", the topic is going nowhere. The inquisition strikes again. It's literaly impossible to discuss personal experience past the very basic first step in the path. It's very sad that it is so. People instead go to dharma overground for discussion of these experiences.

But the most pathetic thing in all this is the reason behind this: the enshrining of humbleness. There was a member in a forum long ago who had something like this as a signature: "Don't worry. You're not that humble." I find it very wise. The imediate reaction in this forum, by some, to someone who says that he achieved 4th jhana (or any attainment) is that "That person is not humble. He's bragging". That's not the case, many times. But what if it's true that that person is proud of what he achieved? Is that such a bad thing? Do you deny that you would be proud if you had attained any of the jhanas or insight knowledges? Is it so bad that that person doesn't deserve the right to be helped to progress in the path? By that very same reasoning, the Buddha would never have told his attainments to anyone. And the millions of people he helped directly or indirectly would not have been helped. Unfortunately, that's what happens in this forum: no one gets helped beyond a certain point because of the inquisition.

Moral of the story: please inquisitors, stop judging others for what you perceive as bragging and instead help them progress in the path. Just answer the questions in this OP if you feel like and if not let it go.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"
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Re: how do you enter jhana?

Postby robertk » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:52 am

I don't think bragging is involved at all.
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Re: how do you enter jhana?

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:10 am

Greetings,

Modus.Ponens wrote:Just answer the questions in this OP if you feel like and if not let it go.

:anjali:

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: how do you enter jhana?

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:33 am

Modus.Ponens wrote: . . .
Funny territory this is. Should one be proud of attaining jhana? Should one be proud of attaining stream entry? But has one really attained jhana or stream entry? Should we talk about this in the same way we talk about a really good golf score? I don't know.

I can understand Alan's need for wanting to talk about this, but what gets a little dicey is that a public forum such as this may not the safest place to talk about these things, for any number of reasons. The potential for self delusion in the advice given in response to a request for advice/help and the harm that could come from that is a primary reason that I would be reluctant to encourage such a public discussion. But as I have said about any number of topics, opinions will vary.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: how do you enter jhana?

Postby Ben » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:59 am

Hi alan...,

alan... wrote:shame you all have to slam me for sharing and wanting to be shared with. :(


I can understand how you feel but there is no shaming, no slamming, and no attitude. I think members here just want the best for you.
In defence of those who have indicated to 'speak to a teacher or a close dhamma-friend', is that it is all too easy for one to self diagnose, and for others who do not share the same methodology or who are not mature in their practice to also misdiagnose your experience.
For the time being, I would suggest that you consider any experience you have on the cushion with a grain of salt, whether the experience is pleasant, unpleasant or neutral. We should be very careful not to become attached to any experience or crave for this or that attainment. They are, after all, just indicators, sign posts, nothing more. At the same time, it might be worthwhile making contact with someone knowledgeable here, who has experience with samatha meditation with whom you can discuss things with. And in the long term - try and make contact with a meditation teacher in the style in which you are practicing. Hopefully, the link to Buddhanet will provide you with some contacts relatively close to you.
kind regards,

Ben
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Re: how do you enter jhana?

Postby David N. Snyder » Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:33 pm

Ben wrote:Hi alan...,

alan... wrote:shame you all have to slam me for sharing and wanting to be shared with. :(


I can understand how you feel but there is no shaming, no slamming, and no attitude. I think members here just want the best for you.
In defence of those who have indicated to 'speak to a teacher or a close dhamma-friend', is that it is all too easy for one to self diagnose, and for others who do not share the same methodology or who are not mature in their practice to also misdiagnose your experience.


Yes, there is no slamming; just some friendly advice, which by no means you have to take or accept. You just asked some questions, that's all. And Tilt provided a link and there are other sites and books which discuss access to the jhanas. It is just that some here, including myself warned about some of the responses you might receive when jhana experiences are discussed, that's all. As I mentioned in my post, even if the jhana is genuine, one is likely to receive scrutiny from others. This is not a forum of arahants. If you can deal with this, then fine; but it is just a friendly warning. There have been numerous enlightenment claimants here at Dhamma Wheel and they all leave in a huff. And no, I am not stating that you are making any claims; all you did was ask some questions. I am just stating that be wary of the responses that follow, that's all, no slamming.
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Re: how do you enter jhana?

Postby DAWN » Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:53 pm

Self appropriation of calm (jhana) is a condition to taboo.
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