Modus.Ponens wrote:Just answer the questions in this OP if you feel like and if not let it go.
Metta,
Retro.
Modus.Ponens wrote:Just answer the questions in this OP if you feel like and if not let it go.
Funny territory this is. Should one be proud of attaining jhana? Should one be proud of attaining stream entry? But has one really attained jhana or stream entry? Should we talk about this in the same way we talk about a really good golf score? I don't know.Modus.Ponens wrote: . . .
I can understand how you feel but there is no shaming, no slamming, and no attitude. I think members here just want the best for you.alan... wrote:shame you all have to slam me for sharing and wanting to be shared with.
Yes, there is no slamming; just some friendly advice, which by no means you have to take or accept. You just asked some questions, that's all. And Tilt provided a link and there are other sites and books which discuss access to the jhanas. It is just that some here, including myself warned about some of the responses you might receive when jhana experiences are discussed, that's all. As I mentioned in my post, even if the jhana is genuine, one is likely to receive scrutiny from others. This is not a forum of arahants. If you can deal with this, then fine; but it is just a friendly warning. There have been numerous enlightenment claimants here at Dhamma Wheel and they all leave in a huff. And no, I am not stating that you are making any claims; all you did was ask some questions. I am just stating that be wary of the responses that follow, that's all, no slamming.Ben wrote:Hi alan...,
I can understand how you feel but there is no shaming, no slamming, and no attitude. I think members here just want the best for you.alan... wrote:shame you all have to slam me for sharing and wanting to be shared with.
In defence of those who have indicated to 'speak to a teacher or a close dhamma-friend', is that it is all too easy for one to self diagnose, and for others who do not share the same methodology or who are not mature in their practice to also misdiagnose your experience.
it is controversial to a degree; as it can lead to an offence for monks who lay claim to it; has a wide variety of interpretations and is difficult to attain.DAWN wrote:Self appropriation of calm (jhana) is a condition to taboo.
Hi retroretrofuturist wrote:Greetings,
Modus.Ponens wrote:Just answer the questions in this OP if you feel like and if not let it go.
Metta,
Retro.
I am going to assume you ae including me in this, and, quite frankly, this highly offensive and rather myopic.Modus.Ponens wrote: . . . inquisitors . . .
I know... and not being "an inquisitor", nor having much worth sharing on the topic, I'm endorsing what you've said through my actions....Modus.Ponens wrote:I had two intentions with that post: to change the mentality of the inquisitors and to encourage people who are confortable to share their experiences, answerig the OP.
Metta,alan... wrote:how do you enter jhana?
what is your step by step process?
what does it feel like?
what do you do during? afterwards?
how many jhanas can you enter?
have you mastered any of them?
used them for specific purposes?
what are your goals?
I haven't taken any surveys and I really think it is more a matter of how sincerely you go at it than how much time you spend. I would say a good amount of time to formally practice is like 4-5 hours a day, though I really do think you could attain just about anything with less. The only thing really effected by 'momentum' is your concentration, so if you are in full retreat practicing 10+ hours you would be really capable of attaining really strong stillness and refinement of fabrication. Learning about the process of fabricating, generating dispassion and relinquishment though is less dependent on momentum. I think you can attain "soft" versions (versions that are phasing in and out alot) of the 8 jhanas without momentum, but if you want harder jhanas you will need the momentum.Modus.Ponens wrote:Hi ohnofabrications
Thank you for that. I have a question though, that I haven't read in books anywhere. How much time of daily siting practice is usualy advised in order to attain the jhanas? And what is the usual timeline of progression, with that amount of practice. I know people are different so it's difficult to answer this, but I would like to see average numbers.
The issue is not a matter of being secretive; it is simply a matter of caveat lector, as has been carefully spelled out above.retrofuturist wrote:Greetings MP,
Modus.Ponens wrote: Nor do I buy into the secretive nature of the discussion ~ the Buddha did not teach with a closed fist, so why would we regard the subject as something that others should not openly discuss if they wish to (so long as no monastics break Vinaya in the process)?
Now there is a guide to entering jhana from the Buddha himself. But, one also needs an object and for many of us it's the breath, and for that one also needs a few other suttas to assist one. So, for me, one needs to compare the suttas against each other, and against one's own personal experiences, and gradually come to a better and better understanding, by degrees. That's how I find it, anyway. But others might find it otherwise.Abandoning the Hindrances
"Endowed with this noble aggregate of virtue, this noble restraint over the sense faculties, this noble mindfulness and alertness, and this noble contentment, he seeks out a secluded dwelling: a forest, the shade of a tree, a mountain, a glen, a hillside cave, a charnel ground, a jungle grove, the open air, a heap of straw. After his meal, returning from his alms round, he sits down, crosses his legs, holds his body erect, and brings mindfulness to the fore.
"Abandoning covetousness with regard to the world, he dwells with an awareness devoid of covetousness. He cleanses his mind of covetousness. Abandoning ill will and anger, he dwells with an awareness devoid of ill will, sympathetic with the welfare of all living beings. He cleanses his mind of ill will and anger. Abandoning sloth and drowsiness, he dwells with an awareness devoid of sloth and drowsiness, mindful, alert, percipient of light. He cleanses his mind of sloth and drowsiness. Abandoning restlessness and anxiety, he dwells undisturbed, his mind inwardly stilled. He cleanses his mind of restlessness and anxiety. Abandoning uncertainty, he dwells having crossed over uncertainty, with no perplexity with regard to skillful mental qualities. He cleanses his mind of uncertainty.
"Suppose that a man, taking a loan, invests it in his business affairs. His business affairs succeed. He repays his old debts and there is extra left over for maintaining his wife. The thought would occur to him, 'Before, taking a loan, I invested it in my business affairs. Now my business affairs have succeeded. I have repaid my old debts and there is extra left over for maintaining my wife.' Because of that he would experience joy and happiness.
"Now suppose that a man falls sick — in pain and seriously ill. He does not enjoy his meals, and there is no strength in his body. As time passes, he eventually recovers from that sickness. He enjoys his meals and there is strength in his body. The thought would occur to him, 'Before, I was sick... Now I am recovered from that sickness. I enjoy my meals and there is strength in my body.' Because of that he would experience joy and happiness.
"Now suppose that a man is bound in prison. As time passes, he eventually is released from that bondage, safe and sound, with no loss of property. The thought would occur to him, 'Before, I was bound in prison. Now I am released from that bondage, safe and sound, with no loss of my property.' Because of that he would experience joy and happiness.
"Now suppose that a man is a slave, subject to others, not subject to himself, unable to go where he likes. As time passes, he eventually is released from that slavery, subject to himself, not subject to others, freed, able to go where he likes. The thought would occur to him, 'Before, I was a slave... Now I am released from that slavery, subject to myself, not subject to others, freed, able to go where I like.' Because of that he would experience joy and happiness.
"Now suppose that a man, carrying money and goods, is traveling by a road through desolate country. As time passes, he eventually emerges from that desolate country, safe and sound, with no loss of property. The thought would occur to him, 'Before, carrying money and goods, I was traveling by a road through desolate country. Now I have emerged from that desolate country, safe and sound, with no loss of my property.' Because of that he would experience joy and happiness.
"In the same way, when these five hindrances are not abandoned in himself, the monk regards it as a debt, a sickness, a prison, slavery, a road through desolate country. But when these five hindrances are abandoned in himself, he regards it as unindebtedness, good health, release from prison, freedom, a place of security. Seeing that they have been abandoned within him, he becomes glad. Glad, he becomes enraptured. Enraptured, his body grows tranquil. His body tranquil, he is sensitive to pleasure. Feeling pleasure, his mind becomes concentrated.
(The Four Jhanas)
"Quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful mental qualities, he enters and remains in the first jhana: rapture and pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought and evaluation. He permeates and pervades, suffuses and fills this very body with the rapture and pleasure born from withdrawal. Just as if a skilled bathman or bathman's apprentice would pour bath powder into a brass basin and knead it together, sprinkling it again and again with water, so that his ball of bath powder — saturated, moisture-laden, permeated within and without — would nevertheless not drip; even so, the monk permeates... this very body with the rapture and pleasure born of withdrawal. There is nothing of his entire body unpervaded by rapture and pleasure born from withdrawal.
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But when they realize they are f, they can let go of their old identity and return with a new user name/account. This is happening in what ever forum especially in Buddhist's where we are trained for detachment and rebirth so don't worry about that.David N. Snyder wrote: There have been numerous enlightenment claimants here at Dhamma Wheel and they all leave in a huff.