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the great rebirth debate - Page 162 - Dhamma Wheel

the great rebirth debate

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Nyana
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Re: the great rebirth debate

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daverupa
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Re: the great rebirth debate

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Alex123
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

Postby Alex123 » Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:56 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

Nyana
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Nyana » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:08 pm


Nyana
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Re: Is hell and hungry ghost realm to be taken literally?

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daverupa
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Re: the great rebirth debate

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Nyana
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Nyana » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:24 pm


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tiltbillings
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Re: the great rebirth debate

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vinasp
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby vinasp » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:42 pm

Hi everyone,

The Buddha uses 'deva' (male) and 'devi' (female) to describe virtuous people in AN 4.53

"Householders, there are these four ways of living together. What four? A wretch lives
together with a wretch; a wretch lives together with a female deva; a deva lives
together with a wretch; a deva lives together with a female deva.
------
And how does a wretch live together with a female deva? Here, the husband is one who
destroys life, takes what is not given, engages in sexual misconduct, speaks falsely,
and indulges in liquor, wine, and intoxicants; he is immoral, of bad character, ....
he insults and reviles ascetics and brahmins.
But his wife is one who abstains from the destruction of life, from taking what is not
given, from sexual misconduct, from false speech, and from liquor, wine and intoxicants,
she is virtuous, of good character, .... she does not insult or revile ascetics and
brahmins. It is in such a way that a wretch lives together with a female deva."
........
[BB, TNDB, page 443, part of AN 4.53]

This is similar to the way that a virtuous woman might be called 'an angel' in English.

Do devas exist? Yes, of course they do!

Regards, Vincent.

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tiltbillings
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:47 pm


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daverupa
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Re: the great rebirth debate

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vinasp
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby vinasp » Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:19 pm

Hi tilt,

tilt: And this can account for all the uses of the word deva?

No, of course not. But it does show that the word has a range of meanings.

Regards, Vincent.

Nyana
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Nyana » Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:51 pm


Nyana
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Nyana » Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:55 pm


vinasp
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby vinasp » Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:22 pm

Hi everyone,

Non-returners also arise spontaneously.

"Again, a monk who has abandoned the five lower fetters arises spontaneously
and, without returning from that world, gains enlightenment."
[ Long Discouses, Walshe 1987, DN 6.13]

There is a widespread misconception that this only occurs after death.
But many passages are ambiguous on this point.
It could be that this spontaneous arising happens immediately as the five lower
fetters are broken.

This, of course, requires that these 'worlds' be understood in a figurative sense, as
states of mind. Such an interpretation is supported by the many passages which speak of
the cessation of the world.

For the non-returner this world has ceased and he has arisen in the next world, when
he becomes fully enlightened the next world also ceases.

Regards, Vincent.

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daverupa
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby daverupa » Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:13 am


Nyana
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Re: the great rebirth debate

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daverupa
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Re: the great rebirth debate

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nibbuti
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Re: the great rebirth debate

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Nyana
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Re: the great rebirth debate

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