Greetings Tilt,
The answer is with the frames of reference.
Question answered.
Metta,
Retro.
vipassana craziness
- retrofuturist
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Re: vipassana craziness
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Re: vipassana craziness
And my point is made. Thanks.retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Tilt,
The answer is with the frames of reference.
Question answered.
Metta,
Retro.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: vipassana craziness
Hi Retro,
What you describe sounds like quite a common approach on a long retreat. Just pay attention to whatever arises.
Mike
If I understand them correctly, Robert (and Sujin, etc) would say that if you think you can induce mindfulness by paying attention to phenomena then you have wrong view.retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Mike,OK... but presented that generically, I doubt you would find Sujin, RobertK etc. disagreeing with it either. But then, they won't call "watch what happens in daily life" a "technique", and neither would I.just watch what happens in daily life
What you describe sounds like quite a common approach on a long retreat. Just pay attention to whatever arises.
Yes, but that structure, lack of structure, or the particular things you are paying attention to, have no particular Dhammic significance, as far as my understanding goes. Such details are not in the suttas, so it seems that they are optional.retrofuturist wrote: It seems much of this comes back to where the line is drawn with regards to what constitutes a "technique". As you said to Mr Man above, there's different levels of structure associated with different approaches.
Mike
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Re: vipassana craziness
Greetings,
Metta,
Retro.
Do they teach something like this...? "One tries to abandon wrong view & to enter into right view: This is one's right effort. One is mindful to abandon wrong view & to enter & remain in right view: This is one's right mindfulness. Thus these three qualities — right view, right effort, & right mindfulness — run & circle around right view." (MN 117)mikenz66 wrote:What you describe sounds like quite a common approach on a long retreat. Just pay attention to whatever arises.
Agreed.mikenz66 wrote:Yes, but that structure, lack of structure, or the particular things you are paying attention to, have no particular Dhammic significance, as far as my understanding goes. Such details are not in the suttas, so it seems that they are optional.
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: vipassana craziness
Well, yes, but of course that's what everyone teaches, isn't it? It's a major topic of the path, so it requires quite a bit of elaboration...retrofuturist wrote:Do they teach something like this...? "One tries to abandon wrong view & to enter into right view: This is one's right effort. One is mindful to abandon wrong view & to enter & remain in right view: This is one's right mindfulness. Thus these three qualities — right view, right effort, & right mindfulness — run & circle around right view." (MN 117))mikenz66 wrote:What you describe sounds like quite a common approach on a long retreat. Just pay attention to whatever arises.
Mike
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Re: vipassana craziness
Greetings Mike,
Thanks.
Metta,
Retro.
Well I don't know - I don't recall anyone else saying it, but then, I've not explored what everyone teaches... hence the question.mikenz66 wrote:Well, yes, but of course that's what everyone teaches, isn't it?
Thanks.
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: vipassana craziness
I've no idea which teachers you have talked to, read, or listened to who don't spend time discussing the development of right view, so I'm rather puzzled what you might be referring to.retrofuturist wrote:Well I don't know - I don't recall anyone else saying it, but then, I've not explored what everyone teaches... hence the question.mikenz66 wrote:Well, yes, but of course that's what everyone teaches, isn't it?
Mike
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Re: vipassana craziness
Greetings Mike,
Retro.
I'm not talking so much about whether they promote right view or not... I was asking whether they teach this particular dynamic (or technique if you prefer)...I've no idea which teachers you have talked to, read, or listened to who don't spend time discussing the development of right view, so I'm rather puzzled what you might be referring to.
Metta,"One tries to abandon wrong view & to enter into right view: This is one's right effort. One is mindful to abandon wrong view & to enter & remain in right view: This is one's right mindfulness. Thus these three qualities — right view, right effort, & right mindfulness — run & circle around right view." (MN 117)
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Re: vipassana craziness
That is characteristic of all the vipassana teachers I have worked with."One tries to abandon wrong view & to enter into right view: This is one's right effort. One is mindful to abandon wrong view & to enter & remain in right view: This is one's right mindfulness. Thus these three qualities — right view, right effort, & right mindfulness — run & circle around right view." (MN 117)
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: vipassana craziness
To me it seems obvious that anyone worth listening teaches that. So I can't understand why the question would arise in the first place. Of course, I can't guarantee that every teacher would say those exact words, but in my experience it's a common theme.tiltbillings wrote:That is characteristic of all the vipassana teachers I have worked with."One tries to abandon wrong view & to enter into right view: This is one's right effort. One is mindful to abandon wrong view & to enter & remain in right view: This is one's right mindfulness. Thus these three qualities — right view, right effort, & right mindfulness — run & circle around right view." (MN 117)
Mike
Re: vipassana craziness
Hi Mike, I don't think it is my position to advocate a specific technique or path of practice and to some extent I don't think a specific technique is needed. We can adjust our practice to suit the situation and to what we are trying to achieve (I don't mean pick and choose or do what we like). I think the power of our practice should not be in a specific technique but more in a mindset or foundation, which we build.mikenz66 wrote:Sorry, I thought this was a "criticism":Mr Man wrote:Hi Mike
Well I was puzzled because I couldn't find any criticisms of Goenka in the thread. I certainly have questions - It seems that discussion is taboo though. That doesn't seem to be the case with other teachers/schools or not to the same degree anyway.
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 91#p220129" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;I think it's quite valid to ask such questions, but you'd have to explain what is different between what Goenka is teaching and what you would advise otherwise for me to take them seriously.Mr Man wrote:It is presented within the context of what the Buddha taught but the "technique" and format? The Goenka practice is not main stream Theravada.tiltbillings wrote: the Goenka practice is certainly inline with what the Buddha taught.
As I said to Retro, there are a range of ways to structure practice (some not particularly structured), all of which, as far as I can understand, are equally compatible with the Suttas. If you think that certain teachers are teaching approaches incompatible with the suttas you'd have to be specific about the details.
Mike
With the Goenka practice we can't take just the "sweeping technique" and say this is Vipassana meditation as handed down from the Buddha we have to take the whole package to understand what is happening. I don't think there is somthing fundamentally wrong with the technique, it might be a good and useful we just need to keep it in perspective and see it for what it is, which is an exercise in concentration/awareness. We also need to look at the package that it is presented in - you must comit to this paractice only.
Ajahn Sumedho talks about the sound of silence. He recommends it as a tool to allow our minds to calm down as a resting point. Some people say that this is the primordial sound, some say is the sound of the blood moving within the body or tinnitus but it really doesn't matter. Ajahn Sumedho is not adding to much to the "technique", accept for the poetic name, He is not saying or implying that the technique is acting as an agent. He is just using it in a skillful way.
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Re: vipassana craziness
Sounds like Goenka.Mr Man wrote: He is not saying or implying that the technique is acting as an agent. He is just using it in a skillful way.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: vipassana craziness
From the OP "proof that Anapanna was doing its work and bringing the gross level impurities to the surface".tiltbillings wrote:Sounds like Goenka.Mr Man wrote: He is not saying or implying that the technique is acting as an agent. He is just using it in a skillful way.
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Re: vipassana craziness
And what does that mean?Mr Man wrote:From the OP "proof that Anapanna was doing its work and bringing the gross level impurities to the surface".tiltbillings wrote:Sounds like Goenka.Mr Man wrote: He is not saying or implying that the technique is acting as an agent. He is just using it in a skillful way.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: vipassana craziness
Tilt another difference with the way that Goenka teaches is to implement it you need to comfit to the whole Goenka package.