YOU CANNOT POST. OUR WEB HOSTING COMPANY DECIDED TO MOVE THE SERVER TO ANOTHER LOCATION. IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN VIEW THIS VERSION WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW POSTING AND WILL NOT SAVE ANYTHING YOU DO ONCE THE OTHER SERVER GOES ONLINE.

Do you believe in rebirth? - Dhamma Wheel

Do you believe in rebirth?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?

Do you believe in rebirth?

Yes
21
72%
No
2
7%
Don't know/not sure
2
7%
Don't care/not important
4
14%
 
Total votes: 29

User avatar
Stiphan
Posts: 1343
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:53 pm

Do you believe in rebirth?

Postby Stiphan » Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:04 am

OK, I know this is a Buddhist forum, so it is easy to predict the result.

Still, I think it would be interesting to see what percentage of Buddhists don't believe in rebirth.

User avatar
clw_uk
Posts: 4655
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: Do you believe in rebirth?

Postby clw_uk » Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:21 am

I voted not important
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

User avatar
kc2dpt
Posts: 957
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:48 pm

Re: Do you believe in rebirth?

Postby kc2dpt » Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:35 pm

What one believes is not as relevant to the Path as what view one holds.
- Peter


User avatar
genkaku
Posts: 416
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:14 pm
Location: Northampton, Mass. U.S.A.
Contact:

Re: Do you believe in rebirth?

Postby genkaku » Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:44 pm

Stefan -- Will you please say a little about what the "rebirth" you are referring to means to you? It might help in answering the question.
Smile just one smile




User avatar
Stiphan
Posts: 1343
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:53 pm

Re: Do you believe in rebirth?

Postby Stiphan » Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:52 pm


User avatar
genkaku
Posts: 416
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:14 pm
Location: Northampton, Mass. U.S.A.
Contact:

Re: Do you believe in rebirth?

Postby genkaku » Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:53 pm

Smile just one smile




User avatar
Jechbi
Posts: 1268
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:38 am
Contact:

Re: Do you believe in rebirth?

Postby Jechbi » Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:08 pm


User avatar
Stiphan
Posts: 1343
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:53 pm

Re: Do you believe in rebirth?

Postby Stiphan » Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:34 pm


nathan
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:11 am

Re: Do you believe in rebirth?

Postby nathan » Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:21 pm

But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

User avatar
genkaku
Posts: 416
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:14 pm
Location: Northampton, Mass. U.S.A.
Contact:

Re: Do you believe in rebirth?

Postby genkaku » Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:37 pm

Smile just one smile




User avatar
kc2dpt
Posts: 957
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:48 pm

Re: Do you believe in rebirth?

Postby kc2dpt » Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:05 pm

Last edited by kc2dpt on Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Peter


User avatar
cooran
Posts: 8502
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: Do you believe in rebirth?

Postby cooran » Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:07 pm

Hello genkaku, all

Most serious buddhists I know, don't operate from either hope or belief. They operate from the point of view of investigation and experiential trust. "This much" they know and have experienced to be true in what the Blessed One taught ~ so, , based on this, as they practice and study, they trust that what they don't currently know and experience of the rest of his teachings to be true, is certainly as he teaches. No projected time limit on arriving at experiential certainty.

metta
Chris
Last edited by cooran on Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

User avatar
clw_uk
Posts: 4655
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: Do you believe in rebirth?

Postby clw_uk » Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:10 pm

Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

nathan
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:11 am

Re: Do you believe in rebirth?

Postby nathan » Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:55 pm

But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Do you believe in rebirth?

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:00 pm

I too concur with what Chris says above.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
Jechbi
Posts: 1268
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:38 am
Contact:

Re: Do you believe in rebirth?

Postby Jechbi » Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:57 am


User avatar
kc2dpt
Posts: 957
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:48 pm

Re: Do you believe in rebirth?

Postby kc2dpt » Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:43 am

Reading those of you who scorn belief... I wonder... before the Buddha was the Buddha, before he knew and saw Nibbana... we at least can develop confidence in his word... what did he have to go on?

"Seeing the danger in sensual pleasures — and renunciation as rest — I go to strive. That's where my heart delights." — Snp III.1

How did he know renunciation would be rest and not frustrated deprivation? Certainly the five ascetics were well practiced at renunciation and just as certainly they were not at rest.

"In this way did Alara Kalama, my teacher, place me, his pupil, on the same level with himself and pay me great honor. But the thought occurred to me, 'This Dhamma leads not to disenchantment, to dispassion, to cessation, to stilling, to direct knowledge, to Awakening, nor to Unbinding (nibbana)." — MN 36

How could he be sure there was such a Dhamma which would lead to disenchantment, to dispassion, to cessation, to stilling, to direct knowledge, to Awakening, to Nibbana? He had already sought out the wisest teachers he could find. How could he know if there was anything more to learn?

"I thought: "Whatever priests or contemplatives in the past, future, or present are feeling painful, racking, piercing feelings due to their striving, this is the utmost. None is greater than this. But with this racking practice of austerities I haven't attained any superior human state, any distinction in knowledge or vision worthy of the noble ones. Could there be another path to Awakening?'" — MN 36

Maybe there was, maybe there wasn't. He couldn't have known, right?

"I thought: 'Could [jhana] be the path to Awakening?' Then, following on that memory, came the realization: 'That is the path to Awakening.'" — MN 36

He realized... what does that mean exactly? He knew? He believed? He hoped? He hadn't seen for himself yet. He didn't even have someone else's word to go on since no one else had seen either.

"My heart, thus knowing, thus seeing, was released from the fermentation of sensuality, released from the fermentation of becoming, released from the fermentation of ignorance. With release, there was the knowledge, 'Released.' I discerned that 'Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for this world.'" — MN 36

Now there was knowledge. Now there was no more room for belief. But I wonder... what about up to that point?
- Peter


User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Do you believe in rebirth?

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:49 am

Greetings,

I voted yes, but I want to qualify that with the comment that I understand "bhava" to mean "becoming", which unlike some, I don't treat as being synonymous with rebirth.

Apologies if that's confusing or makes you want to call me a crypto-annihilationist.

:spy:

:rofl:

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Do you believe in rebirth?

Postby Ben » Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:50 am

Nice post, Peter.
Also remember, Saddha (faith/confidence) is one of the seven bojjhangas (factors of enlightenment).
Interesting, isn't it?
Metta

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

User avatar
Jechbi
Posts: 1268
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:38 am
Contact:

Re: Do you believe in rebirth?

Postby Jechbi » Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:24 am



Return to “Connections to Other Paths”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 28 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine