Did Buddha say “The world is but an illusion?

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Polar Bear
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Re: Did Buddha say “The world is but an illusion?

Post by Polar Bear »

SarathW wrote:
daverupa wrote:
SN 22.95 wrote:Form is like a glob of foam; feeling, a bubble; perception, a mirage; fabrications, a banana tree; consciousness, a magic trick — this has been taught by the Kinsman of the Sun. However you observe them, appropriately examine them, they're empty, void to whoever sees them appropriately.
Suffering does exist; the world is not an illusion, but it is empty.
Hi Daverupa
Thanks for the link. The pali word "Maya" means magic trick. However it is translate to english as illusion. The world mean the five aggregate in Buddhism. So Buddha said consiousness is an illusion!
Hence world should be an illusion too!
Dukkha (Suffering) also refered to five aggregate. So Dukkha cant be real!
When did the Buddha ever say the world was Maya? I've never come across the Buddha saying such in the suttas and from my understanding the Buddha wouldn't say such a thing. The concept of Maya is that all the changing phenomena of the world is an illusion and behind it all is brahma, the Atman or Atta, the unchanging ground of being that is our true self and the Buddha teaches anatta or anatman so maya is hindu not buddhist (as far as I know).
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."
SarathW
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Re: Did Buddha say “The world is but an illusion?

Post by SarathW »

Hi Polar
Thanks. Please read the following link


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_(illusion" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

What do you think about the follwoing in relation to my question:

the Buddha is not affected one way or the other by the illusion. Beyond conceptuality, the Buddha is neither attached nor non-attached. This is the middle way of Buddhism, which explicitly refutes the extremes of both eternalism and nihilism.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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tiltbillings
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Re: Did Buddha say “The world is but an illusion?

Post by tiltbillings »

SarathW wrote:Hi Polar
Thanks. Please read the following link


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_(illusion" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

What do you think about the follwoing in relation to my question:

the Buddha is not affected one way or the other by the illusion. Beyond conceptuality, the Buddha is neither attached nor non-attached. This is the middle way of Buddhism, which explicitly refutes the extremes of both eternalism and nihilism.
The Buddha in the suttas does not say that the world is an illusion.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
SarathW
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Re: Did Buddha say “The world is but an illusion?

Post by SarathW »

Hi Tilt
Do you know the pali word use in Sutta for "Magic Trick"?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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ground
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Re: Did Buddha say “The world is but an illusion?

Post by ground »

The Blessed One said, "What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
From ignorance as a requisite condition come fabrications. From fabrications as a requisite condition comes consciousness. ...
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
:sage:
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retrofuturist
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Re: Did Buddha say “The world is but an illusion?

Post by retrofuturist »

ground wrote:
The Blessed One said, "What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
From ignorance as a requisite condition come fabrications. From fabrications as a requisite condition comes consciousness. ...
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
:goodpost:

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Viscid
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Re: Did Buddha say “The world is but an illusion?

Post by Viscid »

Why do people (particularly the Mahayana) identify the world as illusory to begin with? What are they experiencing, or what insight are they having? If they're in error, why do they make this error?
"What holds attention determines action." - William James
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tiltbillings
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Re: Did Buddha say “The world is but an illusion?

Post by tiltbillings »

Viscid wrote:Why do people (particularly the Mahayana) identify the world as illusory to begin with? What are they experiencing, or what insight are they having? If they're in error, why do they make this error?
I am not sure that Mahayana sees the world as illusion. It is like an illusion, which is different than being an illusion. In the Prajnaparamita Sutras, other than in a few poetic bits, it is stated that it is like an illusion.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Viscid
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Re: Did Buddha say “The world is but an illusion?

Post by Viscid »

tiltbillings wrote:
Viscid wrote:Why do people (particularly the Mahayana) identify the world as illusory to begin with? What are they experiencing, or what insight are they having? If they're in error, why do they make this error?
I am not sure that Mahayana sees the world as illusion. It is like an illusion, which is different than being an illusion. In the Prajnaparamita Sutras, other than in a few poetic bits, it is stated that it is like an illusion.
Ah, okay. I suppose it's 'illusory' in the sense that our experience of the world is distorted, and we're varyingly ignorant of what's actually true of it.. but being 'illusory' doesn't necessarily mean the world is 'unreal' as being an 'illusion' would imply.
Last edited by Viscid on Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"What holds attention determines action." - William James
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DAWN
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Re: Did Buddha say “The world is but an illusion?

Post by DAWN »

Buddha said that all phenomenas are conditioned.
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english
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mikenz66
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Re: Did Buddha say “The world is but an illusion?

Post by mikenz66 »

Viscid wrote: Ah, okay. I suppose it's 'illusory' in the sense that our experience of the world is distorted, and we're varyingly ignorant of what's actually true of the world.. but being 'illusory' doesn't necessarily mean the world is 'unreal' as being an 'illusion' would imply.
That's the way I understand it. What is or isn't "real" is not, it seems to me, the issue. Seeing though those distortions is the issue.
DAWN wrote:Buddha said that all phenomenas are conditioned.
Yes, our (distorted) perceptions (experiences above) are conditioned phenomena...

:anjali:
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SamKR
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Re: Did Buddha say “The world is but an illusion?

Post by SamKR »

SarathW wrote:Hi Tilt
Do you know the pali word use in Sutta for "Magic Trick"?
I hope you don't mind me replying your question. :)
The Pali phrase used for "consciousness, a magic trick" in the following sutta is Māyūpamañca viññāṇaṃ. So, it's close to Maya
Idamavoca bhagavā. Idaṃ vatvāna sugato athāparaṃ etadavoca satthā –

‘‘Pheṇapiṇḍūpamaṃ rūpaṃ, vedanā bubbuḷūpamā [bubbulūpamā (sī.), pubbuḷopamā (ka.)];
Marīcikūpamā saññā, saṅkhārā kadalūpamā;
Māyūpamañca viññāṇaṃ, desitādiccabandhunā.

‘‘Yathā yathā nijjhāyati, yoniso upaparikkhati;
Rittakaṃ tucchakaṃ hoti, yo naṃ passati yoniso.

http://tipitaka.org/romn/cscd/s0303m.mul0.xml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It's translation by Thanissaro Bhikkhu:
That is what the Blessed One said. Having said that, the One Well-Gone, the Teacher, said further:

Form is like a glob of foam;
feeling, a bubble;
perception, a mirage;
fabrications, a banana tree;
consciousness, a magic trick
this has been taught
by the Kinsman of the Sun.
However you observe them,
appropriately examine them,
they're empty, void
to whoever sees them
appropriately.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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tiltbillings
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Re: Did Buddha say “The world is but an illusion?

Post by tiltbillings »

SamKR wrote: Form is like a glob of foam . . . .
In terms of the OP, you missed the most important word in thewhole if the quote: like.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
SamKR
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Re: Did Buddha say “The world is but an illusion?

Post by SamKR »

tiltbillings wrote:
SamKR wrote: Form is like a glob of foam . . . .
In terms of the OP, you missed the most important word in thewhole if the quote: like.
Of course, form is not a glob of foam, it's like a glob of foam.
feeling is like a bubble
perception is like a mirage
fabrications are like a banana tree
consciousness is like a magic trick

So, as for the OP, the answer would be, in my opinion: The Buddha said: The world (consciousness) is [like a] magic trick.
And, a magic trick is/creates illusion(s). One of the meanings of Maya is illusion. In my native language Maya , besides illusion, also means love. :)
Ignorance (Avijja) is close to Maya (illusion) or Moha in the sense that because of avijjā there is Maya (illusion/magic trick). So, avijjā paccaya Saṅkhāra and viññāṇa makes sense.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Did Buddha say “The world is but an illusion?

Post by tiltbillings »

SamKR wrote: One of the meanings of Maya is illusion.
I do not know what the background of SarathW is. In (some forms of) Hinduism the world is Maya which points to an ultimate, truly true true reality atman/brahman, which is, of course, not the teachings ofthe Buddha.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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