At our current rate, humanity is hosed.

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Polar Bear
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At our current rate, humanity is hosed.

Post by Polar Bear »

Interesting video that claims global warming is way more serious than most people understand...



I knew there was a reason I voted for the Green party. :tongue:


:anjali:
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."
daverupa
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Re: At our current rate, humanity is hosed.

Post by daverupa »

I can't think of a more important geopolitical issue. Nuclear arms proliferation might tie.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Kim OHara
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Re: At our current rate, humanity is hosed.

Post by Kim OHara »

daverupa wrote:I can't think of a more important geopolitical issue.
Me neither.
daverupa wrote:Nuclear arms proliferation might tie.
Maybe twenty years ago, before we had let CO2 get so high. Not now.
We are now already well into seeing the effects and worse effects are in the pipeline and unavoidable whatever we do.
We can still improve the outcome (if making it less dire is 'improving') but we have to do a lot more and do it as soon as possible. The longer we leave it, the worse off we and other living creatures will be.

:namaste:
Kim
Digity
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Re: At our current rate, humanity is hosed.

Post by Digity »

I don't understand what we can do about global warming. I don't see government changing and I don't see people changing their habits. Things will just need to get really bad before we wake up, but by then it's probably too late.

That's the stupidity we live with. :rolleye:

Also, I'd prefer to hear from a scientist and not a "blogger". Since when does having a blog make you an expert? It gives this talk less credibility...even though he's probably correct on the general tone of the issue.
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Kim OHara
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Re: At our current rate, humanity is hosed.

Post by Kim OHara »

Digity wrote:... I'd prefer to hear from a scientist and not a "blogger". Since when does having a blog make you an expert? It gives this talk less credibility...even though he's probably correct on the general tone of the issue.
Recent, authoritative references -

http://www.pwc.com/en_GX/gx/low-carbon- ... x-2012.pdf

News item summarising a report for the World Bank:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-11-19/w ... ng/4379634
The report itself is accessed from a link in the news item.

Confirmation of early IPCC forecasts:
http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/conten ... 650978.htm

Current IPC reports:
http://www.ipcc.ch/
especially, perhaps, https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1gFp6I ... edit?pli=1 but note that this 'summary for policy makers' on mitigation is twenty dense pages.

Or you could start with NOAA's Global Warming FAQs https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1gFp6I ... edit?pli=1 - but note that (at 2007) they are getting a bit old. The science is moving really fast - as it needs to.

:reading:
Kim
Reductor
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Re: At our current rate, humanity is hosed.

Post by Reductor »

Is there any real good news about alternative energy? I read here and there about initiatives at other places in the world, but am lacking a wide enough view to know if things are swinging that way at a encouraging rate.

As it is now, I really wish I'd kept it in my pants, 'cause I worry about the lives my children, and grandchildren, will have to lead.
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Kim OHara
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Re: At our current rate, humanity is hosed.

Post by Kim OHara »

Reductor wrote:Is there any real good news about alternative energy? I read here and there about initiatives at other places in the world, but am lacking a wide enough view to know if things are swinging that way at a encouraging rate.
Technological progress is more than adequate and some countries are moving quickly to get it online.
Good overview (in spite of the source being a fossil-fuel company): http://www.bp.com/sectionbodycopy.do?ca ... Id=7068481
[Edit] and don't forget wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy It has lots of links to further info.
There's a lot of up-to-date, reliable stuff on this blog - http://thinkprogress.org/tag/renewable-energy/ - (check out the authors' credentials before saying 'just a blogger' :tongue: ) but this link just takes you to a results of a search for all renewables stories there - I haven't sorted through it for you.
Political will is the key to a fast transition, and political will can be generated from grassroots movements. Harass your local politicians!!

:namaste:
Kim
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Mr Man
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Re: At our current rate, humanity is hosed.

Post by Mr Man »

Thanks for all the links Kim. :)
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Kim OHara
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Re: At our current rate, humanity is hosed.

Post by Kim OHara »

Mr Man wrote:Thanks for all the links Kim. :)
Glad to help. Climate change is where I choose to put my let's-make-the-world-a-better-place energy.

:namaste:
Kim
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Kim OHara
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Re: At our current rate, humanity is hosed.

Post by Kim OHara »

Quite by chance, the latest post on RealClimate is a pair of lectures on global warming and what to do about it: http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/ar ... te-change/
Authoritative but very clear and approachable, and an excellent resource for anyone who isn't sure they know as much as they should about the subject.

:namaste:
Kim
Digity
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Re: At our current rate, humanity is hosed.

Post by Digity »

Kim O'Hara wrote:Quite by chance, the latest post on RealClimate is a pair of lectures on global warming and what to do about it: http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/ar ... te-change/
Authoritative but very clear and approachable, and an excellent resource for anyone who isn't sure they know as much as they should about the subject.

:namaste:
Kim
Thank you, like listening to a more scientific explanation.

I get depressed thinking about all this. I often feel a sense of disgust with this world and how we people live. Not that I'm perfect either. At this point I think if anything is going to kill off the human race it'll be global warming...and for what? Profit/greed. Greed truly is one of the three poisons. That's what we're seeing now. We live in a society filled with greed...it's just hard not to feel a sense of disgust about it all. I just hate the state of the world these days....ugh! Anyway, I guess you just need to develop a sense of equanimity towards these things and try and do your best to improve things.

That makes me wonder...what do you think is the best action someone can take to help with the issue of global warming?
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poto
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Re: At our current rate, humanity is hosed.

Post by poto »

I haven't commented on this issue in a good long time. I also haven't really been paying much attention to it lately as the foolish carbon tax idea was abandoned in my country and seems to be a dead issue at the moment. That pleases me.

There hasn't been any statistically significant warming in something like 15 or 16 years. If anything this current solar cycle has been unusually weak and there has been speculation that we could see an extended solar minimum coming in the next few decades. Doesn't matter what us puny humans are doing if the sun weakens, our planet will cool, possibly even throwing us into the next glacial period.

For anybody worried about CO2, please keep in mind that CO2 levels exceeded 7,000ppm during the Cambrian period, and was fairly high at later periods as well. The planet and life on it did very well at these times, thriving, so no worries about the planet burning up. Our current CO2 level is barely flirting with 400ppm. Personally, I'm hoping to see 1,000ppm in my lifetime, since it's what plants crave. That level of atmospheric CO2 will double to triple our agriculture output too, which we may need as we add billions more people to our population.
Digity wrote: That makes me wonder...what do you think is the best action someone can take to help with the issue of global warming?
Best course of action is to do nothing. There isn't a problem. And if global climate ever becomes a real problem I will tell you what will happen, for I have seen the future... I don't expect anybody to believe me, but I will tell you anyway...

Let me start off by stating that we spend some billions of dollars on global warming research every year. It's become a vast industry, involving politics, academics, scientists and business interests that are all heavy invested in it. This level of spending has been going on for a good number of years, wasting tens of billions of dollars up to this point already.

Now, at some point in the next 100 years, people will stop researching and start spending that money actually doing something. A real solution will emerge. Eventually, we humans will build machines that will completely control the earth's climate. The economic and military rewards of such a system make it an inevitability. It would probably cost in excess of 500 billion dollars to get a basic system in place. I would speculate that some kind of mirrored nano-material that could be unfurled in space like sails be used to either reflect sunlight away from the planet, cooling it, or reflect sunlight towards the planet, warming it. With a large enough satellite array of this type, it would be fairly simple to control not only the earth's global temperature, but also to alter the energy of storm systems as well as change storm paths. For less than the cost of some recent wars, my nation alone could have funded such a project. If a dire threat were truly to face the earth, I have no doubt the resources of many nations would be pooled and action would be taken.

So, again I say the best course of action is to do nothing. Unless maybe you want to study engineering and help build such a system one day.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -- C. S. Lewis
Digity
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Re: At our current rate, humanity is hosed.

Post by Digity »

The Cambrian Era may have had those levels of CO2, but didn't changes happened at a much slower rate then and life forms had time to evolve and develop. Instead, the changes we're making are happening more rapidly. Anyway, you make a good point in that we need to look at both sides, both the good and the bad around global warming. Although, I'm just not as optimistic as you. Typically, when humans are effecting the environment it usually leads to problems. For instance, the ozone hole or polluting the oceans. Can you think of anything from industrialization that has benefited the environment? I can't.

There's also the issue of sea levels. Is that going to be good? If I lived on an island I wouldn't be too happy about that news. Not saying that climate change will be the end of civilization, but I think it'll ultimately lead to more problems than good. Thinking otherwise is probably wishful thinking.
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Kim OHara
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Re: At our current rate, humanity is hosed.

Post by Kim OHara »

poto wrote:I haven't commented on this issue in a good long time. I also haven't really been paying much attention to it lately ...
Hi, poto,
I think it would be great if you could bring yourself up to speed with current knowledge before you say much on the issue, because it's really clear that you are way out of touch. The links I provided in my earlier posts in this thread would be good for an overview.

:namaste:
Kim
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poto
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Re: At our current rate, humanity is hosed.

Post by poto »

Kim O'Hara wrote:
poto wrote:I haven't commented on this issue in a good long time. I also haven't really been paying much attention to it lately ...
Hi, poto,
I think it would be great if you could bring yourself up to speed with current knowledge before you say much on the issue, because it's really clear that you are way out of touch. The links I provided in my earlier posts in this thread would be good for an overview.

:namaste:
Kim
I said I haven't been paying much attention lately... not that I was oblivious.

Fact is, if you look at the data, it's clear there's been no warming for the last 15 or 16 years as I stated... I think the last time I posted about this subject there had been no warming for the last 11 or 12 years, so it has been a while XD

Image

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech ... urn false;
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -- C. S. Lewis
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