difference between samadhi, jhana, vipassana, samatha, etc.

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
daverupa
Posts: 5980
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:58 pm

Re: difference between samadhi, jhana, vipassana, samatha, etc.

Post by daverupa »

khlawng wrote:I never said jhana--->samadhi. The words "practice of" is incorrectly omitted.
It's a distinction without a difference; practice of jhana leads to jhana, is basically what it says, which doesn't seem clear.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
User avatar
marc108
Posts: 463
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:10 pm

Re: difference between samadhi, jhana, vipassana, samatha, etc.

Post by marc108 »

alan... wrote:are jhana and samadhi one and the same?
jhana being absorptions and samadhi meaning "concentration" is there any time samadhi means it's own separate thing?
Jhanas are a specific state of Samadhi (concentration, stillness) with strong awareness... Samadhi can be developed all up and down a gradient, re: momentary, access, etc but can also be developed into trance like states with no awareness. (imo) the Buddha defined right Samadhi as Jhana because they are the states that are most conducive to liberation.

samatha is calm? so a jhanic factor?
Samatha is a method of meditation meant to develop Samadhi.
"It's easy for us to connect with what's wrong with us... and not so easy to feel into, or to allow us, to connect with what's right and what's good in us."
daverupa
Posts: 5980
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:58 pm

Re: difference between samadhi, jhana, vipassana, samatha, etc.

Post by daverupa »

Samatha is a mental quality paired with vipassana, and this pair is to be developed. These words can be used to refer to meditations which focus on developing one quality over the other, but nevertheless, they are mutually supportive mental qualities, and bhavana which privileges one over the other is an unbalanced state of affairs which one should seek to rectify.
AN 10.71 wrote:"If a monk would wish, 'May I attain — whenever I want, without strain, without difficulty — the four jhanas that are heightened mental states, pleasant abidings in the here-&-now,' then he should be one who brings the precepts to perfection, who is committed to inner tranquillity of awareness, who does not neglect jhana, who is endowed with insight, and who frequents empty dwellings.
AN 4.94 wrote:"As for the individual who has attained both internal tranquillity of awareness & insight into phenomena through heightened discernment, his duty is to make an effort in establishing ('tuning') those very same skillful qualities to a higher degree for the ending of the (mental) fermentations.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
SarathW
Posts: 21184
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: difference between samadhi, jhana, vipassana, samatha, etc.

Post by SarathW »

This is my understanding:

Buddha learned the following from his teachers:

1)Samadhi (Samatha) which help him to alleviate or suppress five hindrances through Vittaka,Vikara,Pithi,Sukaha and Ekagata.

2) Samath meditation lead Buddha to attain Rupavachara and Arupavachara Dyana (Jhana) which gave him super normal powers.

Then Buddha realise that Dyana will not help him to attain his final goal Nirvana. So he used the highest concentration achieved as above one (1) and used it inconjuction with insight. (Samatha-Vipassana) so he attained Nirvana in four stages (Sothapanna etc)

As per Abhidhamma, above stages can be divided into many types of consciousness.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
daverupa
Posts: 5980
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:58 pm

Re: difference between samadhi, jhana, vipassana, samatha, etc.

Post by daverupa »

My understanding is that he learned some formless attainments from his two teachers, then set that all aside in order to pursue the jhanas - the first one of which he had discovered on his own as a youth, and he was able to pursue and develop and master all four at Uruvela. Jhana was, in fact, the missing piece of the puzzle.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
User avatar
marc108
Posts: 463
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:10 pm

Re: difference between samadhi, jhana, vipassana, samatha, etc.

Post by marc108 »

this is worth reading if you're interested in a canonical understanding:

http://santipada.org/aswiftpairofmessengers/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

chapter 2:
The pre­cise deno­ta­tion of samatha and vipas­sanā in the con­text of med­i­ta­tion can be derived from a pas­sage quoted more fully below. Samatha is the steady­ing of the mind, its set­tling, uni­fy­ing, and con­cen­trat­ing in samādhi. It is there­fore sim­i­lar in mean­ing to one-pointedness of mind, the most dis­tinc­tive men­tal qual­ity of jhāna or samādhi.4 Vipas­sanā is the see­ing and explor­ing of activ­i­ties. It there­fore refers to wis­dom in its refined mode of inves­ti­ga­tion into the nature of real­ity as experience.
"It's easy for us to connect with what's wrong with us... and not so easy to feel into, or to allow us, to connect with what's right and what's good in us."
Bakmoon
Posts: 637
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:14 pm

Re: difference between samadhi, jhana, vipassana, samatha, etc.

Post by Bakmoon »

alan... wrote:are jhana and samadhi one and the same?

jhana being absorptions and samadhi meaning "concentration" is there any time samadhi means it's own separate thing?

vipassana i believe is insight which is looking at things with the mind and developing insight into them.

samatha is calm? so a jhanic factor?

i know many of these terms are likely used for describing a progression, as in metta can be samatha but then lead into jhana and so on.

so how many types are there once you get up the ladder (ie: past the method and into a different state of consciousness?

just jhana and vipassana?
Let me give it my best shot.

Samadhi means something like focus or concentration, although personally I prefer the translation "collectedness." It refers to a certain strength and stability of mind which can be developed through meditation.

Jhana refers to certain states of mind which have very strong Samadhi, the mind is free from the five hinderances, and various Jhanic factors are present (The exact factors depend on which Jhana you are talking about).

Samatha refers to tranquility and peace in the mind that is developed in meditation.

Vipassana refers to the quality of the mind to clearly and truly see its mental objects. It is a certain kind of mental clarity that is very important in meditation.

I hope that is a good and simple answer for you.
The non-doing of any evil,
The performance of what's skillful,
The cleansing of one's own mind:
This is the Buddhas' teaching.
alan...
Posts: 824
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:37 pm

Re: difference between samadhi, jhana, vipassana, samatha, etc.

Post by alan... »

Bakmoon wrote:
alan... wrote:are jhana and samadhi one and the same?

jhana being absorptions and samadhi meaning "concentration" is there any time samadhi means it's own separate thing?

vipassana i believe is insight which is looking at things with the mind and developing insight into them.

samatha is calm? so a jhanic factor?

i know many of these terms are likely used for describing a progression, as in metta can be samatha but then lead into jhana and so on.

so how many types are there once you get up the ladder (ie: past the method and into a different state of consciousness?

just jhana and vipassana?
Let me give it my best shot.

Samadhi means something like focus or concentration, although personally I prefer the translation "collectedness." It refers to a certain strength and stability of mind which can be developed through meditation.

Jhana refers to certain states of mind which have very strong Samadhi, the mind is free from the five hinderances, and various Jhanic factors are present (The exact factors depend on which Jhana you are talking about).

Samatha refers to tranquility and peace in the mind that is developed in meditation.

Vipassana refers to the quality of the mind to clearly and truly see its mental objects. It is a certain kind of mental clarity that is very important in meditation.

I hope that is a good and simple answer for you.

great thanks!
alan...
Posts: 824
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:37 pm

Re: difference between samadhi, jhana, vipassana, samatha, etc.

Post by alan... »

khlawng wrote:I never said jhana--->samadhi. The words "practice of" is incorrectly omitted.
if you're talking about me i copied and pasted your words, nothing is omitted. copy what i wrote and hit "ctrl+f" and then paste what i wrote in the box and hit "next" it will bring you to your own words which were identical, i just did it.

EDIT: looking closer i see you were talking to polarbuddha or daverupa as our conversation had already ended and the omitted words you're referencing aren't even in the post i quoted but are in a later one that dave and polar talked about but did not directly quote using the quote tool thingy.
Last edited by alan... on Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
SarathW
Posts: 21184
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: difference between samadhi, jhana, vipassana, samatha, etc.

Post by SarathW »

Good link if you have time to read it:

http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/printguna.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
SarathW
Posts: 21184
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: difference between samadhi, jhana, vipassana, samatha, etc.

Post by SarathW »

daverupa wrote:My understanding is that he learned some formless attainments from his two teachers, then set that all aside in order to pursue the jhanas - the first one of which he had discovered on his own as a youth, and he was able to pursue and develop and master all four at Uruvela. Jhana was, in fact, the missing piece of the puzzle.
"Jhana was, in fact, the missing piece of the puzzle."

This is the first time I heard this. Interesting.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Post Reply