Newtown Shootings

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
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manas
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Re: Newtown Shootings

Postby manas » Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:37 am

I don't own a gun (I live in a suburban area, so I don't feel I need one), but a thought occurred to me. As Buddhists, we rightly abstain from violence to other living beings, not just because it is a rule to be followed, but out of genuine compassion for other living beings, from insects right up to human beings. But there might be situations where some controlled violence might be necessary, in the defence of others. For example, if someone was about to kill my child, I would do whatever it took to stop them - using lethal force, if that was what it took to save my child's life. So I do think that gun ownership, in certain situations, might be understandable (please note, I didn't say 'good',I said 'understandable'). If I lived in a far-flung rural area on a farm, for example, far from local law enforcement, and had kids, I would also need a suitable weapon to protect them, in case of a home invasion or whatever. But obviously I would do my utmost to try to inflict the least possible harm on an attacker. But when it comes down to it, I challenge any parent to say they would not use lethal force if that was the only way to save the life of their child, for example. This is not a black-and-white issue. Guns are horrible things, but sometimes, in this imperfect realm, they do have a place. Sadly.
Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

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Cittasanto
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Re: Newtown Shootings

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:16 am

I keep hearing about these tragic event, but one thing dumbfounds me. That is the reasoning people still have for gun ownership no matter what in US and why these things happen. almost like it isn't a problem in the law itself but on the wider populaces behaviour.


it is sad if the unsubstantiated "facts" outweigh the proof. although the video omits the fact that when a similare event happened in briton the gun control measures were strengthened.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

Reductor
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Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Newtown Shootings

Postby Reductor » Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:24 am


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Sambojjhanga
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Re: Newtown Shootings

Postby Sambojjhanga » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:20 pm

The flavor of the dhamma exceeds all other flavors

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Sambojjhanga
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Re: Newtown Shootings

Postby Sambojjhanga » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:00 pm

The flavor of the dhamma exceeds all other flavors

Justsit
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Re: Newtown Shootings

Postby Justsit » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:16 pm

So, Sambojjhanga, I'm still pondering all this...in your view, then, is self-defense justified for Buddhist adherents?

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LonesomeYogurt
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Location: America

Re: Newtown Shootings

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:44 pm

Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta


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Sambojjhanga
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Location: San Diego, California, USA

Re: Newtown Shootings

Postby Sambojjhanga » Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:24 pm

The flavor of the dhamma exceeds all other flavors

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Alex123
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Re: Newtown Shootings

Postby Alex123 » Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:35 pm

From orthodox Buddhist POV,

If one is killed or hurt, Isn't that a result of past bad Kamma (which one cannot avoid)?

Isn't killing someone, for whatever purpose, even for self-defense, creates new bad kamma for oneself?
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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tiltbillings
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Re: Newtown Shootings

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:44 pm


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Alex123
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Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:32 pm

Re: Newtown Shootings

Postby Alex123 » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:11 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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tiltbillings
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Re: Newtown Shootings

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:24 pm


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Alex123
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Re: Newtown Shootings

Postby Alex123 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:26 am

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Ben
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Location: kanamaluka

Re: Newtown Shootings

Postby Ben » Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:46 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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daverupa
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Re: Newtown Shootings

Postby daverupa » Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:50 am


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LonesomeYogurt
Posts: 900
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:24 pm
Location: America

Re: Newtown Shootings

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:06 am

Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta


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badscooter
Posts: 400
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:07 am
Location: New Jersey

Re: Newtown Shootings

Postby badscooter » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:37 am

"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"

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Ben
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Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Newtown Shootings

Postby Ben » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:58 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

User avatar
Alex123
Posts: 3476
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:32 pm

Re: Newtown Shootings

Postby Alex123 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:59 am

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Newtown Shootings

Postby Ben » Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:04 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..


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