What is precept and practice clinging?

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SarathW
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What is precept and practice clinging?

Postby SarathW » Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:22 am

Can some one explain this?

Please see the follwing attahcemnt for the source;

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

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Ben
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Re: What is precept and practice clinging?

Postby Ben » Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:02 am

Greetings,
Otherwise translated as clinging to rules and vows or clinging to rites and rituals.
Its the attachment some religious people have to particular rites and rituals believing that in practicing them, they are liberated.
Such as baptism, confirmation, confession, and last rites within the Catholic tradition.
kind regards,

Ben
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725

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SarathW
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Re: What is precept and practice clinging?

Postby SarathW » Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:54 am

Thanks Ben
Should this include clinging to Dhamma as well?

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Cittasanto
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Re: What is precept and practice clinging?

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:07 am

SarathW wrote:Thanks Ben
Should this include clinging to Dhamma as well?

Personally I would say no.
I liken it to superstitions like not walking under a ladder habitually with the thought that it is benefiscial, or other actions trying to get a desired aim which it has no guarantee or hope of achieving like bathing to purify kamma.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

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Ben
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Re: What is precept and practice clinging?

Postby Ben » Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:56 am

Hi Sarath,
SarathW wrote:Thanks Ben
Should this include clinging to Dhamma as well?

The Dhamma, when properly practiced, reduces our tendency to cling. The Dhamma, when practiced, leads us from aversion, craving and ignorance.

However, sometimes we something like clinging to the Dhamma when we encounter people who are very attached to particular views regarding their interpretation of the Dhamma. We see that from time to time with some individuals who have such a deep attachment to their own interpretation of the Dhamma that they will not countenance a differing point of view.
with metta,

Ben
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR
Buddhist Life Stories of Australia
e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com

SarathW
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Re: What is precept and practice clinging?

Postby SarathW » Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:39 am

An interesting Sutta relating to OP:

When — by following a life of precept & practice, a life, a holy life that is followed as of essential worth — one's unskillful mental qualities increase while one's skillful mental qualities decline: that sort of precept & practice, life, holy life that is followed as of essential worth is fruitless. But when — by following a life of precept & practice, a life, a holy life that is followed as of essential worth — one's unskillful mental qualities decline while one's skillful mental qualities increase: that sort of precept & practice, life, holy life that is followed as of essential worth is fruitful

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

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Sam Vara
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Re: What is precept and practice clinging?

Postby Sam Vara » Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:56 pm

I have often seen this type of clinging (silabbata-paramasa) described as an attachment to practices which are believed to be supernaturally effective in themselves, and which require the addition of no further effort for the practitioner to achieve liberation. The type of religious or magical practices described by above by Ben, for example. This is certainly true, but it might be worth considering whether the notion can be broadened a bit.

I have heard monks describe it as any type of clinging to personal practices which one believes to be effective. The type of thinking along the lines of "If I can just get to two long retreats a year, I'll continue to make progress...", or "I've got to get eight hours sleep a night, and make sure I avoid sugar, and aggressive people, and then I'll be OK". Along these lines, Ajahn Thanissaro talks of
clinging to precepts and practices — i.e., fixed ways of doing things

as opposed to an attachment to practices which are supernaturally effective.

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Re: What is precept and practice clinging?

Postby theend » Sat Sep 06, 2014 4:17 pm

Sam Vara wrote:[...] but it might be worth considering whether the notion can be broadened a bit.

Yes, after all it's one of the fetters which a puthujjana cannot avoid having.

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Re: What is precept and practice clinging?

Postby SarathW » Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:47 am

This last point is touched on in many discourses in the Pali canon, as the Buddhist teachings on non-clinging all contain a central paradox: the objects of clinging that must ultimately be abandoned form part of the path to their abandoning. A certain amount of sensual pleasure is needed in the path to go beyond sensual pleasure; Right View is needed to overcome attachment to views; a regimen of precepts and practices is needed to overcome attachment to precepts and practices; a strong sense of self-responsibility is needed to overcome attachment to doctrines of the self.[2] Other passages in the Pali canon offer clear analogies to explain these paradoxes, often in terms of movement toward a goal — taking a raft across a river, walking to a park, taking a series of relay coaches from one city to another — in which the motive and means of transport are abandoned on reaching the goal.


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... vagga.html

chownah
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Re: What is precept and practice clinging?

Postby chownah » Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:23 am

SarathW wrote:This last point is touched on in many discourses in the Pali canon, as the Buddhist teachings on non-clinging all contain a central paradox: the objects of clinging that must ultimately be abandoned form part of the path to their abandoning. A certain amount of sensual pleasure is needed in the path to go beyond sensual pleasure; Right View is needed to overcome attachment to views; a regimen of precepts and practices is needed to overcome attachment to precepts and practices; a strong sense of self-responsibility is needed to overcome attachment to doctrines of the self.[2] Other passages in the Pali canon offer clear analogies to explain these paradoxes, often in terms of movement toward a goal — taking a raft across a river, walking to a park, taking a series of relay coaches from one city to another — in which the motive and means of transport are abandoned on reaching the goal.


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... vagga.html

Good post.
Perhaps the ritual is not as important as how it is grasped.
chownah


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