What is precept and practice clinging?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
SarathW
Posts: 5899
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

What is precept and practice clinging?

Postby SarathW » Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:22 am

Can some one explain this?

Please see the follwing attahcemnt for the source;

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

User avatar
Ben
Site Admin
Posts: 18168
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: What is precept and practice clinging?

Postby Ben » Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:02 am

Greetings,
Otherwise translated as clinging to rules and vows or clinging to rites and rituals.
Its the attachment some religious people have to particular rites and rituals believing that in practicing them, they are liberated.
Such as baptism, confirmation, confession, and last rites within the Catholic tradition.
kind regards,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

SarathW
Posts: 5899
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: What is precept and practice clinging?

Postby SarathW » Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:54 am

Thanks Ben
Should this include clinging to Dhamma as well?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

User avatar
Cittasanto
Posts: 6181
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin
Contact:

Re: What is precept and practice clinging?

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:07 am

SarathW wrote:Thanks Ben
Should this include clinging to Dhamma as well?

Personally I would say no.
I liken it to superstitions like not walking under a ladder habitually with the thought that it is benefiscial, or other actions trying to get a desired aim which it has no guarantee or hope of achieving like bathing to purify kamma.
“Mendicants, these two [types of persons] defame the Tathāgata.
(The mendicants asked) What are the two [types of persons]?
(The Lord Buddha responded) The malicious, or the inwardly angry, and the one with (blind) faith or the one who holds things incorrectly.
Mendicants, these two [types of persons] defame the Tathāgata.”
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
"Others will misconstrue reality based on personal perspectives, firmly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our personal perspectives, nor firmly holding them, but easily discarded."

User avatar
Ben
Site Admin
Posts: 18168
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: What is precept and practice clinging?

Postby Ben » Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:56 am

Hi Sarath,
SarathW wrote:Thanks Ben
Should this include clinging to Dhamma as well?

The Dhamma, when properly practiced, reduces our tendency to cling. The Dhamma, when practiced, leads us from aversion, craving and ignorance.

However, sometimes we something like clinging to the Dhamma when we encounter people who are very attached to particular views regarding their interpretation of the Dhamma. We see that from time to time with some individuals who have such a deep attachment to their own interpretation of the Dhamma that they will not countenance a differing point of view.
with metta,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

SarathW
Posts: 5899
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: What is precept and practice clinging?

Postby SarathW » Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:39 am

An interesting Sutta relating to OP:

When — by following a life of precept & practice, a life, a holy life that is followed as of essential worth — one's unskillful mental qualities increase while one's skillful mental qualities decline: that sort of precept & practice, life, holy life that is followed as of essential worth is fruitless. But when — by following a life of precept & practice, a life, a holy life that is followed as of essential worth — one's unskillful mental qualities decline while one's skillful mental qualities increase: that sort of precept & practice, life, holy life that is followed as of essential worth is fruitful

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

User avatar
Sam Vara
Posts: 1604
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm

Re: What is precept and practice clinging?

Postby Sam Vara » Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:56 pm

I have often seen this type of clinging (silabbata-paramasa) described as an attachment to practices which are believed to be supernaturally effective in themselves, and which require the addition of no further effort for the practitioner to achieve liberation. The type of religious or magical practices described by above by Ben, for example. This is certainly true, but it might be worth considering whether the notion can be broadened a bit.

I have heard monks describe it as any type of clinging to personal practices which one believes to be effective. The type of thinking along the lines of "If I can just get to two long retreats a year, I'll continue to make progress...", or "I've got to get eight hours sleep a night, and make sure I avoid sugar, and aggressive people, and then I'll be OK". Along these lines, Ajahn Thanissaro talks of
clinging to precepts and practices — i.e., fixed ways of doing things

as opposed to an attachment to practices which are supernaturally effective.

theend
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:47 am

Re: What is precept and practice clinging?

Postby theend » Sat Sep 06, 2014 4:17 pm

Sam Vara wrote:[...] but it might be worth considering whether the notion can be broadened a bit.

Yes, after all it's one of the fetters which a puthujjana cannot avoid having.

SarathW
Posts: 5899
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: What is precept and practice clinging?

Postby SarathW » Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:47 am

This last point is touched on in many discourses in the Pali canon, as the Buddhist teachings on non-clinging all contain a central paradox: the objects of clinging that must ultimately be abandoned form part of the path to their abandoning. A certain amount of sensual pleasure is needed in the path to go beyond sensual pleasure; Right View is needed to overcome attachment to views; a regimen of precepts and practices is needed to overcome attachment to precepts and practices; a strong sense of self-responsibility is needed to overcome attachment to doctrines of the self.[2] Other passages in the Pali canon offer clear analogies to explain these paradoxes, often in terms of movement toward a goal — taking a raft across a river, walking to a park, taking a series of relay coaches from one city to another — in which the motive and means of transport are abandoned on reaching the goal.


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... vagga.html

See also Silabata Sutta

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
Last edited by SarathW on Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

chownah
Posts: 3880
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: What is precept and practice clinging?

Postby chownah » Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:23 am

SarathW wrote:This last point is touched on in many discourses in the Pali canon, as the Buddhist teachings on non-clinging all contain a central paradox: the objects of clinging that must ultimately be abandoned form part of the path to their abandoning. A certain amount of sensual pleasure is needed in the path to go beyond sensual pleasure; Right View is needed to overcome attachment to views; a regimen of precepts and practices is needed to overcome attachment to precepts and practices; a strong sense of self-responsibility is needed to overcome attachment to doctrines of the self.[2] Other passages in the Pali canon offer clear analogies to explain these paradoxes, often in terms of movement toward a goal — taking a raft across a river, walking to a park, taking a series of relay coaches from one city to another — in which the motive and means of transport are abandoned on reaching the goal.


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... vagga.html

Good post.
Perhaps the ritual is not as important as how it is grasped.
chownah

SarathW
Posts: 5899
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: What is precept and practice clinging?

Postby SarathW » Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:11 am

Some English translations of the Buddha’s teachings list ‘adherence to rites and rituals’ as an attachment one must overcome. This has led some Buddhist to reject all ritual. But the Buddha’s concern was the attachment not the rituals. Furthermore, the appropriate and literal translation into English is ‘adherence to precepts and religious observance’ – a much broader category than ‘rites and rituals’. As important as precepts and religious observances are in Buddhism, they alone cannot liberate people. To rely on them for liberation is a hindrance to liberation. But precepts, religious observances and rituals can have an important role for other purposes. Not least of these is preparing the ground for the deep letting go which is what is required for liberation.

Therefore, one of the important functions of Buddhist rituals is to strengthen people’s connection to the Dharma and to the intention, respect, understanding, community, and experiential dimension associated with the Dharma. While feeling a stronger connection to the Dharma can be meaningful in and of itself, it can also fuel a person’s practice when it is challenging to do.



Types of Buddhist Rituals
1.Going for Refuge. This is probably the most significant ritual connecting people to the Dharma. This is the oldest and most common ritual throughout most Buddhist traditions.
2.Offering homage or respect to the Buddha, to Buddhist teachers, teachings, or other important areas of Buddhist life.
3.Making offerings or practicing dana.
4.Confession of faults
5.Precept ceremonies
6.Calling on spiritual forces for support or protection
7.Blessings, aspirations, and Brahmavihara “prayers.”
8.Dedication of merit
9.Rites of Passage such as weddings and funerals
10.Initiations and ordinations


http://www.insightmeditationcenter.org/ ... -buddhism/
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”


Return to “General Theravāda discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: dhammapal and 42 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine