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Emptiness - mahayana and theravada - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Individual
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Re: Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Postby Individual » Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:44 am

The best things in life aren't things.


Element

Re: Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Postby Element » Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:34 am


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Karma Dondrup Tashi
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Re: Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:43 pm


Karunika
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Re: Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Postby Karunika » Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:55 pm


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stuka
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Re: Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Postby stuka » Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:10 pm

Last edited by stuka on Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:16 am, edited 3 times in total.

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stuka
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Re: Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Postby stuka » Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:50 pm


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Karma Dondrup Tashi
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Re: Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:35 pm


Element

Re: Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Postby Element » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:16 pm

Theravada teaching on emptiness is straightforward & unconvoluted, which is why it comes from a perfectly fully enlightened Buddha.

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stuka
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Re: Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Postby stuka » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:33 pm


Individual
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Re: Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Postby Individual » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:07 pm

The best things in life aren't things.


meindzai
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Re: Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Postby meindzai » Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:02 pm

If you feel like listening to Thanissaro Bhikkhu talk for about 6 hours, he has a very long (multi part, of course) talk on Emptiness from the Theravada perspective; http://audiodharma.org/talks/ThanissaroBhikkhu.html

There is also a shorter 1 hour version - but the 6 hour one covers a LOT of territory, including the Mahayana perspective. Or, probably better said, a Theravadans perspective of the Mahayana perspective. The Theravada bias is apparent, but understandable.

An article of his is here --> http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... iness.html
which covers a lot of the same territory, but doesn't go into the whole Nagarjuna/Mahayana etc. thing.

Personally, if I'm talking to a mahayanist or zennie friend, I just set my internal mental babelfish to translate it to "anicca, anatta, dukkha" and the conversation tends to progress pretty smoothly. "The Five Skhandas are Empty" (per the heart sutra) translates to "The Five Khandas are anicca, anatta, dukkha" which is absolutely true. When it gets sticky is when people want to talk about this myserious animal called "reality," at which point I try to quietly back out of the conversation, since the only realities I'm concerned with are dukkha and the cessation of dukkha.

-M

Element

Re: Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Postby Element » Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:22 pm


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stuka
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Re: Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Postby stuka » Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:52 pm


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Prasadachitta
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Re: Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Postby Prasadachitta » Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:53 pm

"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

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stuka
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Re: Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Postby stuka » Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:54 am


Karunika
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Re: Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Postby Karunika » Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:40 am


meindzai
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Re: Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Postby meindzai » Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:31 am

I think what people forget is that mahayana and Theravada have entirely different goals and idealss, and this is primarily where the differences come from. Theravada aspires to arahantship and Mahayana aspires to Buddhahood. Each is complete and logical with respect to it's respective goal.

No Mahayanist I know would argue that Theravada is incomplete WRT to arahantship. With regards to arahantship, no improvements can be made by mahayana becuase mahayanists do not aspire to be Arahants. What mahayana says is that mahayana is the path of the Bodhisattva - someone who aspires to Buddhahood. The mistake of forgetting this distinction is made by both people who wish to disparage one or the other philosophy, and also by people who attempt to reconcile them by saying "They're both two different interpretations of the same doctrines." They're different doctrines becuase the goals are different. The teachings on emptiness then follow different paths from there.

-M

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stuka
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Re: Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Postby stuka » Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:50 am

Last edited by stuka on Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:20 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Ben
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Re: Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Postby Ben » Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:55 am

Dear friends

Please keep in mind that while this is a forum for the discussion and discovery of the Theravada, it is intended that Dhammawheel becomes a haven for all sincere practitioners regardless of tradition.

It is hoped that practitioners from non-Theravadin traditions may share their view and thus help us all to gain a deeper perspective on the Dhamma.

Be mindful that personal views on the efficacy of Mahayanist or Vajrayanist doctrine do not breach the Terms of Service with regards to right speech. Please be respectful, especially to those who may have a differing view or opinion. Remember, that until we enter the stream, we are all still subject to the grosser and finer defilements that cloud our minds. None of us yet have pristine right view.
Thank you for your cooperation.
With metta,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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stuka
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Re: Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Postby stuka » Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:08 am

Last edited by stuka on Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:43 am, edited 5 times in total.


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