AN 9.36
The Suttas are permeated with talk of the jhanas, although the formulaic response each time they are mentioned is very similar.
how do you enter jhana?
- Dhammanando
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Re: how do you enter jhana?
I expect Ven. Sujīva's source would be the Visuddhimagga.mirco wrote: Very interesting. Since I like the Suttas I'm curious where to find that.
But in the Suttanta Piṭaka the five masteries (pañca vasiyo) are found in the Ñāṇakathā of the Paṭisambhidāmagga (Paṭi. i.99-100. English translation: Path of Discrimination 97-8).
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.
In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.
In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
Re: how do you enter jhana?
Hi Alan,
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .horn.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The best description is given by Buddha, for example, in Ganaka-Moggalana sutta:alan... wrote:what is your step by step process?
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .horn.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: how do you enter jhana?
alan...
Some people, myself included, like Shaila Catherine's books about jhāna: Focused & Fearless and Wisdom Wide & Deep. The former was written before she studied with Pa Auk Sayadaw, and the latter afterwards (he asked her to write it). They are full of instructions on entering and sustaining jhāna, and Wisdom Wide & Deep combines Abhidhamma, Visuddhimagga and Sutta approaches with lots of scholaraly references.
I also like the Ajahn Lee/Ajahn Fuang/Ajhan Geoff (Thannisaro) approach which is very different but, IMO, extremely compatible with the above. Then again, I also like pulling my mind in several directions, so just consider that another caveat lector.
IMO, there is not one way to enter jhāna. IMO, if you have to ask a teacher of friend if it's jhāna, it's probably not.
Metta-bhavana is personally one of my favorite ways to cultivate the jhāna factors.
"INQUISITORS": Maybe it's helpful to talk about cultivating the jhāna factors instead of entering jhāna?
Some people, myself included, like Shaila Catherine's books about jhāna: Focused & Fearless and Wisdom Wide & Deep. The former was written before she studied with Pa Auk Sayadaw, and the latter afterwards (he asked her to write it). They are full of instructions on entering and sustaining jhāna, and Wisdom Wide & Deep combines Abhidhamma, Visuddhimagga and Sutta approaches with lots of scholaraly references.
I also like the Ajahn Lee/Ajahn Fuang/Ajhan Geoff (Thannisaro) approach which is very different but, IMO, extremely compatible with the above. Then again, I also like pulling my mind in several directions, so just consider that another caveat lector.
IMO, there is not one way to enter jhāna. IMO, if you have to ask a teacher of friend if it's jhāna, it's probably not.
Metta-bhavana is personally one of my favorite ways to cultivate the jhāna factors.
"INQUISITORS": Maybe it's helpful to talk about cultivating the jhāna factors instead of entering jhāna?
Re: how do you enter jhana?
Patisambhida was personal between the Buddha and Sariputta. Maybe if your teacher asks you to learn this mastery it's o.k. because he knows you well and what suits you, but since the Buddha didn't generally emphasised it, why should we? I think, if it would have been a major point in His method, He would have talked about it more often and we would find it overall in the Suttas or at least in the main training instructions.Dhammanando wrote:I expect Ven. Sujīva's source would be the Visuddhimagga. But in the Suttanta Piṭaka the five masteries (pañca vasiyo) are found in the Ñāṇakathā of the Paṭisambhidāmagga (Paṭi. i.99-100. English translation: Path of Discrimination 97-8).
Kind regards :-)
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23046
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Re: how do you enter jhana?
Your support for that statement?mirco wrote: Patisambhida was personal between the Buddha and Sariputta.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
- Cittasanto
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Re: how do you enter jhana?
He did talk about mastering the Jhanas quite often, and certainly didn't want people to be amateurish and hap hazard with their mental cultivation!mirco wrote:Patisambhida was personal between the Buddha and Sariputta. Maybe if your teacher asks you to learn this mastery it's o.k. because he knows you well and what suits you, but since the Buddha didn't generally emphasised it, why should we? I think, if it would have been a major point in His method, He would have talked about it more often and we would find it overall in the Suttas or at least in the main training instructions.Dhammanando wrote:I expect Ven. Sujīva's source would be the Visuddhimagga. But in the Suttanta Piṭaka the five masteries (pañca vasiyo) are found in the Ñāṇakathā of the Paṭisambhidāmagga (Paṭi. i.99-100. English translation: Path of Discrimination 97-8).
Kind regards
AN4.25 as an example.
"He attains — whenever he wants, without strain, without difficulty — the four jhanas that are heightened mental states, pleasant abidings in the here-&-now."
However there are slightly different wordings depending upon the context. such as
DN15 wrote:"Now, when a monk attains these eight emancipations in forward order, in reverse order, in forward and reverse order, when he attains them and emerges from them wherever he wants, however he wants, and for as long as he wants, when through the ending of the mental fermentations he enters and remains in the fermentation-free awareness-release and discernment-release, having directly known it and realized it in the here and now, he is said to be a monk released in both ways. And as for another release in both ways, higher or more sublime than this, there is none."
You will also find dialogues between two Arahants are not because one does not know the answer but for the benefit of others around at the time. but the Paṭisambhidāmagga is ascribed to Sariputta alone not the Buddha. this is quite easy to find out.MN53 wrote:"There is the case, Mahanama, where a disciple of the noble ones is consummate in virtue, guards the doors to his sense faculties, knows moderation in eating, is devoted to wakefulness, is endowed with seven qualities, and obtains at will — without trouble or difficulty — the four jhanas that constitute heightened awareness and a pleasant abiding in the here-&-now.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
Re: how do you enter jhana?
D'oh! I was wrong with that. Wiki sais:tiltbillings wrote:Your support for that statement?mirco wrote:Patisambhida was personal between the Buddha and Sariputta.
"Tradition ascribes the Patisambhidamagga to the Buddha's great disciple, Sariputta. [...] The Patisambhidamagga has been described as an "attempt to systematize the Abhidhamma" ..."
Well, if that's the case, I'm not interested to dig any deeper over there. But, that's my story.
Regards :-)
Last edited by mirco on Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: how do you enter jhana?
Thank you. That was helpful.Cittasanto wrote:He did talk about mastering the Jhanas quite often, and certainly didn't want people to be amateurish and hap hazard with their mental cultivation! AN4.25 as an example."He attains — whenever he wants, without strain, without difficulty — the four jhanas that are heightened mental states, pleasant abidings in the here-&-now."
However there are slightly different wordings depending upon the context. such asDN15 wrote:"Now, when a monk attains these eight emancipations in forward order, in reverse order, in forward and reverse order, when he attains them and emerges from them wherever he wants, however he wants, and for as long as he wants, when through the ending of the mental fermentations he enters and remains in the fermentation-free awareness-release and discernment-release, having directly known it and realized it in the here and now, he is said to be a monk released in both ways. And as for another release in both ways, higher or more sublime than this, there is none."You will also find dialogues between two Arahants are not because one does not know the answer but for the benefit of others around at the time. but the Paṭisambhidāmagga is ascribed to Sariputta alone not the Buddha. this is quite easy to find out.MN53 wrote:"There is the case, Mahanama, where a disciple of the noble ones is consummate in virtue, guards the doors to his sense faculties, knows moderation in eating, is devoted to wakefulness, is endowed with seven qualities, and obtains at will — without trouble or difficulty — the four jhanas that constitute heightened awareness and a pleasant abiding in the here-&-now.
Regards :-)
- tiltbillings
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Re: how do you enter jhana?
The Patisambhidamagga is a very useful discussion of the Dhamma in terms of actual practice. The English translation we have is, however, extremely difficult, making access to the Patisambhidamagga difficult. It deserves to be carefully translated and made available.mirco wrote:D'oh! I was wrong with that. Wiki sais:tiltbillings wrote:Your support for that statement?mirco wrote:Patisambhida was personal between the Buddha and Sariputta.
"Tradition ascribes the Patisambhidamagga to the Buddha's great disciple, Sariputta. [...] The Patisambhidamagga has been described as an "attempt to systematize the Abhidhamma" ..."
Well, if that's the case, I'm not interested to dig any deeper over there. But, that's my story.
Regards
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: how do you enter jhana?
I found some thing relate to your question in the following link. third chapter there is a paragraph labled "The entrance to Jhana"
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/printguna.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/printguna.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Re: how do you enter jhana?
...and how does one exit jhana?
Re: how do you enter jhana?
If jhana is not stable, then one comes out of it as soon as one or more of the jhana factors subside.danieLion wrote:
...and how does one exit jhana?
If one's practice is stable then one only comes out of jhana after a period set by the meditator before he or she enters jhana.
kind regards,
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
Re: how do you enter jhana?
If you read DN 9 together with MN 44, that might suggest the answer...danieLion wrote:
...and how does one exit jhana?
Re: how do you enter jhana?
danieLion wrote:
...and how does one exit jhana?