Monk Phra Bunphithak Jomthong entered the U.S. four years ago on a religious visa and has since devoted himself to serving a burgeoning Buddhist community in Southern California. Barefoot and clad in a saffron robe, Mr. Jomthong recently gave what amounts to the most accurate job description he has: "to share Buddhist practices and to promote peace and harmony among people."
But the U.S. government wants to deport the 47-year-old monk, after denying him permanent U.S. residency, or a green card, on the grounds that he was employed without authorization after his temporary religious visa lapsed. Now, Mr. Jomthong, a citizen of Thailand, is fighting in federal district court and immigration court for the right to remain in the country.
At issue is the meaning of "employment." Mr. Jomthong's fate may depend on whether his attorney can convince a judge that the monk's unpaid religious services don't constitute employment. "The monk may work at his religious labors but he is not employed by the temple. He took an oath of poverty and doesn't receive wages," says Angelo Paparelli an immigration attorney with Seyfarth Shaw LLP who is representing Mr. Jomthong free of charge.
The monk's saga illustrates how an increasingly backlogged and cautious immigration system can trip up some applicants striving to obey the law.
-snip-
In late March, the government denied Mr. Jomthong a green card again, maintaining in the decision that he had been "remunerated since your admission, albeit on a modest, non-salaried basis...."
U.S. to deport Thai monk for being "remunerated"
U.S. to deport Thai monk for being "remunerated"
Buddhist Monk Faces Worldly Green-Card Matters
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
Re: U.S. to deport Thai monk for being "remunerated"
If you know how typical Thai temples operate, you would not be surprised by the Government's decision: most monks -- far from taking an oath of poverty -- can accumulate a substantial amount of funds over a few years in the West, all of it untaxed donations slipped to them in envelopes by the devotees (for doing chanting, etc.). This could just be called personal gift, but really it is like a salary.
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)
Access to Insight - Theravada texts
Ancient Buddhist Texts - Translations and history of Pali texts
Dhammatalks.org - Sutta translations
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)
Access to Insight - Theravada texts
Ancient Buddhist Texts - Translations and history of Pali texts
Dhammatalks.org - Sutta translations
Re: U.S. to deport Thai monk for being "remunerated"
Except that it IS a gift. There is no contract stating a fixed salary or hourly wage, either on paper or verbal. When asked how much he charges for his services, he can honestly reply "nothing".
- Peter
Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
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Re: U.S. to deport Thai monk for being "remunerated"
That is too bad. It is the sad to see my government prevent one from doing that which is of the highest calling, teaching the dhamma and living the holy life.
Re: U.S. to deport Thai monk for being "remunerated"
What's really sad is that they want to deport this guy, but millions of illegals here from Mexico are being given a free pass to citizenship. I really wish our government would figure out just what it does want to do.
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
Abraham Lincoln
Abraham Lincoln
Re: U.S. to deport Thai monk for being "remunerated"
Well, those Mexicans are probably Christian so...
- Peter
Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
Re: U.S. to deport Thai monk for being "remunerated"
I object to this statement because it is not true. There is no free pass to U.S. citizenship for millions of people from Mexico.rosuto wrote:What's really sad is that they want to deport this guy, but millions of illegals here from Mexico are being given a free pass to citizenship. I really wish our government would figure out just what it does want to do.
Having had close contact with caring individuals who had trouble with their U.S. residency status (and who were technically deportable), and having seen firsthand the way many U.S. citizens dehumanize "illegals" by making all kinds of cartoonish assumptions about them, and having witnessed the breakup of families when "illegal" family members were deported despite the needs of immediate family members with U.S. citizenship, I'm sensitive when it comes to discussions about immigration issues. Please, let's try not to oversimplify.
And no, Peter, the immigration policy in the U.S. toward Mexicans has nothing to do with Christianity.
Metta
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
Re: U.S. to deport Thai monk for being "remunerated"
I guess you don't follow your history very much.Jechbi wrote:I object to this statement because it is not true. There is no free pass to U.S. citizenship for millions of people from Mexico.rosuto wrote:What's really sad is that they want to deport this guy, but millions of illegals here from Mexico are being given a free pass to citizenship. I really wish our government would figure out just what it does want to do.
Having had close contact with caring individuals who had trouble with their U.S. residency status (and who were technically deportable), and having seen firsthand the way many U.S. citizens dehumanize "illegals" by making all kinds of cartoonish assumptions about them, and having witnessed the breakup of families when "illegal" family members were deported despite the needs of immediate family members with U.S. citizenship, I'm sensitive when it comes to discussions about immigration issues. Please, let's try not to oversimplify.
And no, Peter, the immigration policy in the U.S. toward Mexicans has nothing to do with Christianity.
Metta
SourceImmigration Amnesty in the United States: In 1986, Congress passed the Immigration Reform and Control Act, or IRCA, which granted approximately 2.8 million undocumented immigrants legal status in the United States.
Now, I am sorry, but the fault for people that have immigration issues and their families get broken up, need to take responsibility for their illegal status. If the needs of their immediate family members meant enough, they wouldn't be here illegally. We should show compassion, but only to a degree. Living in an area that has quite a large share of immigrants, legal and illegal both; the placating of those whose very act of breathing breaks the law is beyond me. My father is an immigrant, my grandmother is an immigrant, my mother in law is an immigrant. Legally. And it is a long arduous process. But that doesn't excuse anyone from deciding to not follow the laws of this country. The simple facts of the matter are, that they chose to come here illegally. They chose to have a child here illegally. Why does the blame for those decisions fall on anyone but the one that made them?
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
Abraham Lincoln
Abraham Lincoln
Re: U.S. to deport Thai monk for being "remunerated"
Mexican immigrants don't receive any special or favorable treatment from the "migra" quite the opposite in fact...and they go to the US to do the crappy underpaid jobs most Americans won't do...
Last edited by adeh on Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: U.S. to deport Thai monk for being "remunerated"
You're mistaken in your assessment of how closely I follow history. In your post, you erroneously repeated a falsehood we often hear from right-wingers, namely, that amnesty is at hand again now. You said, "are being given." That's just plain misleading rhetoric.rosuto wrote:I guess you don't follow your history very much.
Well, it's obvious what your position is: a black-and-white, us versus them oversimplification. You have no idea what you're talking about.Now, I am sorry, but the fault for people that have immigration issues and their families get broken up, need to take responsibility for their illegal status. If the needs of their immediate family members meant enough, they wouldn't be here illegally. We should show compassion, but only to a degree. Living in an area that has quite a large share of immigrants, legal and illegal both; the placating of those whose very act of breathing breaks the law is beyond me. My father is an immigrant, my grandmother is an immigrant, my mother in law is an immigrant. Legally. And it is a long arduous process. But that doesn't excuse anyone from deciding to not follow the laws of this country. The simple facts of the matter are, that they chose to come here illegally. They chose to have a child here illegally. Why does the blame for those decisions fall on anyone but the one that made them?
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
Re: U.S. to deport Thai monk for being "remunerated"
That's not what rosuto said. Rosuto seems to believe it's illegal to have children in the U.S. if you're not a citizen, for example. That's just silly.adeh wrote:I have to agree with rosuto....Mexican immigrants don't receive any special or favorable treatment from the "migra" quite the opposite in fact...and they go to the US to do the crappy underpaid jobs most Americans won't do...
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
Re: U.S. to deport Thai monk for being "remunerated"
I just corrected that
Re: U.S. to deport Thai monk for being "remunerated"
Actually, it was a huge talking point during the most recent election, and is being worked on by the current administration:Jechbi wrote:You're mistaken in your assessment of how closely I follow history. In your post, you erroneously repeated a falsehood we often hear from right-wingers, namely, that amnesty is at hand again now. You said, "are being given." That's just plain misleading rhetoric.rosuto wrote:I guess you don't follow your history very much.
SourcePresident Obama supports a system that allows undocumented immigrants who are in good standing to pay a fine, learn English, and go to the back of the line for the opportunity to become citizens.
How exactly, is it "just silly"? When every breath you take somewhere is illegal, any other actions you take are breaking the law as well. This is the same as generating negative karma, then complaining its not fair when a negative effect results. Isn't it the basic concept?Jechbi wrote:That's not what rosuto said. Rosuto seems to believe it's illegal to have children in the U.S. if you're not a citizen, for example. That's just silly.adeh wrote:I have to agree with rosuto....Mexican immigrants don't receive any special or favorable treatment from the "migra" quite the opposite in fact...and they go to the US to do the crappy underpaid jobs most Americans won't do...
Oh, and for your information, there are plenty of americans that would love to take the crap jobs that have been snatched up by illegal immigrants. I am not trying to sound nationalistic, it is just plain logic. One does not pick and choose the rules that one wants to follow. I see no real reason as to why anyone should get preferential treatment over any other kind of lawbreaker. Do we start handing out lighter sentences to rapists and murderers and thieves now?
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
Abraham Lincoln
Abraham Lincoln
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Re: U.S. to deport Thai monk for being "remunerated"
Not according to (so we're told) the Buddha...'boundless', I believe, is the term most often used...rosuto wrote:We should show compassion, but only to a degree.
Re: U.S. to deport Thai monk for being "remunerated"
No human being is illegal.