best suttas to memorize? techniques?

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alan...
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Re: best suttas to memorize? techniques?

Post by alan... »

Bakmoon wrote:
alan... wrote:i'm working on memorizing satipatthana right now. this one is very inclusive. are there any others that would be good?

here are my unfinished thoughts:

maha satipatthana: covers about 70% of what i want to memorize.

anapanasati sutta: covers meditation in detail, another 10%?

a sutta that entails metta practice or at least that section of one, another 10%?

a sutta that covers dependant origination (SN 12.65?), recollection of past lives and enlightenment (MN 36 verses 34-44?), and maybe kamma as well, so probably one of the buddha's enlightenmnet suttas. another 10% and that's 100%. sweet.


........something about not-self...(SN 22.59?).

conversely i like the idea of memorizing only one and mastering it fully, if it's only one it must cover a LOT of ground, hence; satipatthana.

i started off reading and then writing the first lines of it over and over. that made it easy to check for accuracy but once you get a few pages in that's way to much writing so now i just do it in my head and check accuracy by recording myself saying it out loud and then compare that to the text.

i've also taken a picture of the text with my phone and made the section i'm working on my background that way it's always at my finger tips and, who knows, maybe it's seeping in unconsciously as well since it's always behind whatever i'm doing making it even easier to remember. on a funny note it's currently on "foulness of the bodily parts" so if anyone looks at my phone background, and doesn't know the sutta or anything, it's "contents of the stomach, feces, bile," and so on so they would be like "wha??? you're weird! why is this your background?"

it's so long that once i've got it down i'm going to recite it in three parts, on the way to work in the morning, on the way home in afternoon, and as i lie down for bed.

if i only do this one sutta i am considering learning it in pali as well, not that i will then magically know pali but it will give me a deeper understanding of the translation and i will learn a little more pali than i currently know at least.

anyone else doing anything like this?
I would recommend memorizing the Ananda sutta SN 54.13 instead of the Anapanasati Sutta because it covers the same material with a shorter introduction, but that's just me.

In terms of memorizing technique, there is one method I find useful. I break up the sutta into different sections (each short enough to chant on one breath) and I print them out on a piece of paper. I then chant section 1 and 2 about 4 or 5 times, and then I cover the paper and try to chant it from memory another 4 or 5 times. If I can't do it, I chant it from the paper another 4 or 5 times and then try again.

Then I do the same thing for section 2 and 3, and then 3 and 4, then 4 and 5, etc... until I get to the end of the page. The reason why I make sure my memorizing practice overlaps is because when you do it that way, it is really easy to remember what part comes next. After getting to the end of the page, I try to chant the whole thing from memory. If I can't do the whole thing, then I re-memorize the sections I had problems with. After successfully chanting a page from memory a few times, I take a break and see if I can do it again in an hour, and then review it, and move on to the next page the next day.

Make sure that before you memorize anything new on a day that you spend time reviewing by re-chanting what you already memorized so that you don't forget it, and once you memorize the whole thing to chant it regularly so you don't forget it.

The Girimananda Sutta AN 10.60 is very popular for memorizing among some forest monks because it lists several different types of meditation.

Have you memorized the Metta Sutta and the Mangala Sutta yet? Those are some of my favorite to chant.

awesome! thanks. i like your technique.
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Jaidyn
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Re: best suttas to memorize? techniques?

Post by Jaidyn »

For memorizing I liked MN 10 and MN 2 (or was it MN 4)..Go for memorizing the first small portion until you master it, learn the next and master it, Read both of them starting with the first and then the next and try to master them both in succession. Continue and learn the third one in isolation, and then restart by trying to master the three in succession. In the middle of the sutta you do not need to restart entierly from the start, but may chose a middle-point to return to. Certain parts will be harder and requires extra attention or techniques. Be flexible. Finally you can read the whole sutta from memory.

Calming the mind is good. It is easy to get frustrated but then it becomes a good training in keeping the mind calm., A certain joy will arise once the parts are mastered and read from memory, the mind still has to keep calm and not be overturned by the joy (the same as with frustration).

The benefits, as you probably know, are that you have access to them wherever you are, and you will "embody" the teachings in your daily life in a whole new way. You will start to see how more of the details in your daily life may relate to the details in the suttas.
karunametta
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Re: best suttas to memorize? techniques?

Post by karunametta »

when you guys are memorizing these suttas, are you memorizing both the pali and english, or just english? Or maybe just pali?

Metta Sutta and Reflections on Sharing Blessings are good ones. After you memorize satipatthana though :)
SamKR
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Re: best suttas to memorize? techniques?

Post by SamKR »

alan... wrote:

........something about not-self...(SN 22.59?).
Yes, Anattalakkhana Sutta: SN 22.59
I think it would be good to memorize by reading slowly while understanding and contemplating/experiencing each sentence.
I have not tried to memorize like that though.
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equilibrium
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Re: best suttas to memorize? techniques?

Post by equilibrium »

Why would one want to "memorize"?.....even if one could memorize all the suttas, surely by memorizing does not set one free?
Is "understanding" and "comprehension" not the main purpose?.....if done, one can let go rather than to "hold on".....by clinging.
befriend
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Re: best suttas to memorize? techniques?

Post by befriend »

my method for memorizing the metta sutta was reading a couple stanzas then chanting it out loud then reading the next stanza chanting it etc... as a ceremonial thing and i did it so much it just stayed in my brain. that might be a method that would work. i think this way takes longer but it might not be as grueling.
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Cittasanto
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Re: best suttas to memorize? techniques?

Post by Cittasanto »

equilibrium wrote:Why would one want to "memorize"?.....even if one could memorize all the suttas, surely by memorizing does not set one free?
Is "understanding" and "comprehension" not the main purpose?.....if done, one can let go rather than to "hold on".....by clinging.
can you carry the book with you everywhere you go?
if you have it memorised you can take it everywhere, and better yet reflect on its meaning far more often.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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equilibrium
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Re: best suttas to memorize? techniques?

Post by equilibrium »

Cittasanto wrote:
equilibrium wrote:Why would one want to "memorize"?.....even if one could memorize all the suttas, surely by memorizing does not set one free?
Is "understanding" and "comprehension" not the main purpose?.....if done, one can let go rather than to "hold on".....by clinging.
can you carry the book with you everywhere you go?
We're talking about two different things here.
if you have it memorised you can take it everywhere, and better yet reflect on its meaning far more often.
When one understands, one does not need to take it everywhere and reflect on its meaning.....as one knows in the mind.

Is it not true that the Dhamma is seen with the "mind" and not the "eyes"?
Iti 92. Sa"nghaa.tika.n.na sutta : Seeing the Dhamma [Excerpt]

This was said by the Blessed One, said by the Arahant, so I have heard: "Even if
a monk, taking hold of my outer cloak, were to follow right behind me, placing
his feet in my footsteps, yet if he were to be greedy for sensual pleasures,
strong in his passions, malevolent in mind, corrupt in his resolves, his
mindfulness muddled, unalert, uncentered, his mind scattered, and his faculties
uncontrolled, then he would be far from me, and I from him. Why is that? Because
he does not see the Dhamma. Not seeing the Dhamma, he does not see me (Dhamma.m
apassanto na ma.m passati).

"But even if a monk were to live one hundred leagues away, yet if he were to
have no greed for sensual objects, were not strong in his passions, not
malevolent in mind, uncorrupt in his resolves, his mindfulness established,
alert, centered, his mind at singleness, and his faculties well-restrained, then
he would be near to me, and I to him. Why is that? Because he sees the Dhamma.
Seeing the Dhamma, he sees me (Dhamma.m passanto ma.m passati)."
It is the "mind" that needs to be set free and not the eyes.....is it not?
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Cittasanto
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Re: best suttas to memorize? techniques?

Post by Cittasanto »

equilibrium wrote:We're talking about two different things here.
I am talking about the teachings found in the suttas (you know what is being memorised here), what are you talking about?
equilibrium wrote:When one understands, one does not need to take it everywhere and reflect on its meaning.....as one knows in the mind.
and when one doesn't understand? and how does one know they understand?
Peeling the layers of meaning away can be a long task.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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Jaidyn
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Re: best suttas to memorize? techniques?

Post by Jaidyn »

equilibrium wrote:Why would one want to "memorize"?.....even if one could memorize all the suttas, surely by memorizing does not set one free?
Is "understanding" and "comprehension" not the main purpose?.....if done, one can let go rather than to "hold on".....by clinging.
What do you think about what I wrote earlier? - "The benefits, as you probably know, are that you have access to them wherever you are, and you will "embody" the teachings in your daily life in a whole new way. You will start to see how more of the details in your daily life may relate to the details in the suttas."
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equilibrium
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Re: best suttas to memorize? techniques?

Post by equilibrium »

Cittasanto wrote:I am talking about the teachings found in the suttas (you know what is being memorised here)
And what exactly is there to be "found"? and by who?
what are you talking about?
The OP is seeking ways to memorize suttas with different techniques.....but for what purpose exactly?
The real "Rain man" in the USA can probably remember all the suttas but for what purpose?.....does memory and recall of all the suttas allow one to be free?
Can reading along set one free?
Is it not about reading, understanding, comprehension and taking action if necessary for one to advance along the path.....so the mind can be free?
and when one doesn't understand? and how does one know they understand?
Peeling the layers of meaning away can be a long task.
You must already know or at least aware of that there are no such a thing as "layers of meaning" as these are all fabrications by the self, when the self is not there, there can only be one true meaning.....
One doesn't understand because the self is in the way.....creating fabrications.....preventing one from understanding.....hence obstruction.
When one understands, one will know as it is aligned with the teaching.....only when the self is removed.
Jaidyn wrote:What do you think about what I wrote earlier? - The benefits, as you probably know, are that you have access to them wherever you are, and you will "embody" the teachings in your daily life in a whole new way. You will start to see how more of the details in your daily life may relate to the details in the suttas.
Overall, it sounds wise indeed. The benefits are the fruits.....Depends on what one means by the word "embody", sounds like acting or impersonating although there is a difference between action by knowing and action by acting.....two very different things.
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Re: best suttas to memorize? techniques?

Post by Cittasanto »

equilibrium
please read the OP and title. you are coming at this with assumptions which are both unfair and missing things. Jumping to the end rather than where someone is helps no-one.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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Jaidyn
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Re: best suttas to memorize? techniques?

Post by Jaidyn »

equilibrium wrote:
Cittasanto wrote:
Jaidyn wrote:What do you think about what I wrote earlier? - The benefits, as you probably know, are that you have access to them wherever you are, and you will "embody" the teachings in your daily life in a whole new way. You will start to see how more of the details in your daily life may relate to the details in the suttas.
Overall, it sounds wise indeed. The benefits are the fruits.....Depends on what one means by the word "embody", sounds like acting or impersonating although there is a difference between action by knowing and action by acting.....two very different things.
You are correct. It depends on what I mean with "embody". One way of understanding "embody" is: "You will start to see how more of the details in your daily life may relate to the details in the suttas", and therefore the suttas will influence your behavior to a greater extent - you simply get a sharper vision and act accordingly. On the other hand, the memory of the suttas does not guarantee you get the right vision.

The "action by knowing and action by acting" i do not understand, and i do not grasp what difference you mean, and how it relates to memorizing (you may have an interesting conclusion but I don´t see it clearly yet)
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Jaidyn
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Re: best suttas to memorize? techniques?

Post by Jaidyn »

equilibrium wrote:
what are you talking about?
The OP is seeking ways to memorize suttas with different techniques.....but for what purpose exactly?
The real "Rain man" in the USA can probably remember all the suttas but for what purpose?.....does memory and recall of all the suttas allow one to be free?
Can reading along set one free?
Is it not about reading, understanding, comprehension and taking action if necessary for one to advance along the path.....so the mind can be free?

The real "Rain man" could remember them exactly and it would not mean anything to him if he is not interested in buddhism.

On the other hand: The suttas as memorized will have an impact (even a great impact) on a persons mind if she or he is interested in buddhism. The access to the content will just be quick and precise and the person may use the memorized teaching as a tool along the path.

Also The real "Rain man" will not experience the joy of cognizing the teaching, while the buddhist-student will experience it in a great amount. We often talk about how the words of the buddha touches our hearts, and having them memorized will not only make the words touch our hearts, but they will really "hug" our hearts. Memorizing brings a greater intensity to the words as felt in the mind.

"cognizing the teaching" here means both remembering it and thinking about it in relation to experiences and other thoughts, and the rain man only does the former, having no interest in the later and therefore does not experience the joy.
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Re: best suttas to memorize? techniques?

Post by Bakmoon »

Jaidyn wrote:
equilibrium wrote:
what are you talking about?
The OP is seeking ways to memorize suttas with different techniques.....but for what purpose exactly?
The real "Rain man" in the USA can probably remember all the suttas but for what purpose?.....does memory and recall of all the suttas allow one to be free?
Can reading along set one free?
Is it not about reading, understanding, comprehension and taking action if necessary for one to advance along the path.....so the mind can be free?

The real "Rain man" could remember them exactly and it would not mean anything to him if he is not interested in buddhism.

On the other hand: The suttas as memorized will have an impact (even a great impact) on a persons mind if she or he is interested in buddhism. The access to the content will just be quick and precise and the person may use the memorized teaching as a tool along the path.

Also The real "Rain man" will not experience the joy of cognizing the teaching, while the buddhist-student will experience it in a great amount. We often talk about how the words of the buddha touches our hearts, and having them memorized will not only make the words touch our hearts, but they will really "hug" our hearts. Memorizing brings a greater intensity to the words as felt in the mind.

"cognizing the teaching" here means both remembering it and thinking about it in relation to experiences and other thoughts, and the rain man only does the former, having no interest in the later and therefore does not experience the joy.
Excellent point. One other benefit that I have found is that during daily life, we often forget ourselves and act in ways contrary to the Dhamma. But when we memorize passages, often when these situations confront us, we can call to mind passages we have memorized to help us. I know that when I get angry I like to call to mind parts of the Metta sutta, or the stock passage description of right effort, and it makes it a lot easier to abandon the anger by reminding yourself that the teaching says to do so.
The non-doing of any evil,
The performance of what's skillful,
The cleansing of one's own mind:
This is the Buddhas' teaching.
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