cultivating wisdom?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
vinasp
Posts: 1675
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:49 pm
Location: Bristol. United Kingdom.

Re: cultivating wisdom?

Post by vinasp »

Hi alan...

Is wisdom itself actually cultivated?

Perhaps wisdom is the right way of knowing, it is what is left when all the wrong ways
of knowing have been eliminated.

First stage: eliminate views.
Second stage: eliminate wrong ways of 'regarding' things.
Third stage: eliminate knowing in terms of 'I am'.

Of course, one has to see why the wrong ways of knowing are wrong.

Regards, Vincent.
alan...
Posts: 824
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:37 pm

Re: cultivating wisdom?

Post by alan... »

manas wrote:Alan, I'm glad you find samadhi "fairly straightforward" cos personally I've had a very long and hard struggle with it, which is ongoing.

As for wisdom, just to keep exerting ourselves in the practice requires a degree of wisdom, imo. Otherwise why wake up early every day to sit, abstain from various things, etc? Why not just take it easy and enjoy the ordinary pleasures of life?
well it is a struggle, but at least you know what you're trying to do! you sit down, focus on your breath, etc. you're on a road with an idea of a destination. my problem is that with wisdom i have no idea what i'm doing some of the time. i feel like it should be easier to see direction in cultivation and all that.

i like that you say simply practice is wise. i read a quote i love one time: "practice is perfect" beautiful.
alan...
Posts: 824
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:37 pm

Re: cultivating wisdom?

Post by alan... »

vinasp wrote:Hi alan...

Is wisdom itself actually cultivated?

Perhaps wisdom is the right way of knowing, it is what is left when all the wrong ways
of knowing have been eliminated.

First stage: eliminate views.
Second stage: eliminate wrong ways of 'regarding' things.
Third stage: eliminate knowing in terms of 'I am'.

Of course, one has to see why the wrong ways of knowing are wrong.

Regards, Vincent.

well here's my thoughts: the eighfold path is divided up into wisdom, morality and concentration. concentration includes mindfulness, effort and concentration, so all the people saying mindfulness is how you get wisdom is confusing me. then morality is right view, speech, and livelihood. then wisdom is right view and right thought. both of those things can be volitional activities, correcting ones views can be a thing you can think about and accomplish, and even right view is something you can attempt to cultivate. as opposed to simply being mindful and waiting for wisdom while behaving morally.

see what i'm saying?

obviously they all come together, but while they're separate, why can't we explain wisdom as easily as concentration and morality. morality is the easiest and then concentration is at least a progressive thing: sit down, pick a meditation object, meditate in this way, eventually you can go through these states of mind, and so on. there is nothing like this for wisdom as far as i can tell. does anyone know otherwise?
User avatar
DNS
Site Admin
Posts: 17169
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, Estados Unidos de América
Contact:

Re: cultivating wisdom?

Post by DNS »

Study some of the more technical aspects of the Dhamma, such as Paṭiccasamuppāda. Read the Suttas or if you already have, study them some more, especially some of the more technical parts.

You are asking lots of good questions. I admire your adhitthana (determination; a paramita).
alan...
Posts: 824
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:37 pm

Re: cultivating wisdom?

Post by alan... »

David N. Snyder wrote:Study some of the more technical aspects of the Dhamma, such as Paṭiccasamuppāda. Read the Suttas or if you already have, study them some more, especially some of the more technical parts.

You are asking lots of good questions. I admire your adhitthana (determination; a paramita).
Thanks! And thanks for the advice!
vinasp
Posts: 1675
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:49 pm
Location: Bristol. United Kingdom.

Re: cultivating wisdom?

Post by vinasp »

Hi alan...

Yes, but there is also another way of understanding the path.

Right thought, speech, conduct, livelihood, effort, mindfulness and concentration are
the RESULT of right view. All the other path factors are the automatic consequences of
right view, which only noble disciples have. [see SN 45.1]

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Regards, Vincent.
alan...
Posts: 824
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:37 pm

Re: cultivating wisdom?

Post by alan... »

vinasp wrote:Hi alan...

Yes, but there is also another way of understanding the path.

Right thought, speech, conduct, livelihood, effort, mindfulness and concentration are
the RESULT of right view. All the other path factors are the automatic consequences of
right view, which only noble disciples have. [see SN 45.1]

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Regards, Vincent.

good point.
User avatar
ground
Posts: 2591
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: cultivating wisdom?

Post by ground »

After having been told "what you are", just sit and verify through watching arising and cessation of "what you are". :sage:
User avatar
mirco
Posts: 450
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 2:12 pm

Re: cultivating wisdom?

Post by mirco »

12. WISDOM (paññā): Wisdom means seeing clearly the impersonal process of Dependent Origination. If every time we see the word WISDOM mentioned in any form throughout the texts, we first consider that reference is being made directly concerning ‘the process of dependent origination’, then we will find new meaning in reading the texts. The word wisdom is found in many contexts: As in "and his taints were destroyed with his seeing with wisdom", "he sees with wisdom", "he is wise". Just the word wisdom by itself anywhere should be considered first as being in this context unless it’s very obviously referring to something else.
Post Reply