is vipassana the main stream everywhere or just in the west?

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danieLion
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Re: is vipassana the main stream everywhere or just in the west?

Post by danieLion »

Insight Meditation in the United States: Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness by Gil Fronsdal (From Charles S. Prebish and Kenneth K. Tanaka, THE FACES OF BUDDHISM IN AMERICA, Chapter 9, Copyright 1998, The Regents of the University of California with the permission of the University of California Press).
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Mr Man
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Re: is vipassana the main stream everywhere or just in the west?

Post by Mr Man »

alan... wrote: i realize that. however in the west there is literally a very well known and very specific vipassana movement.
Possibly that should be "in the USA".

In my opinion the wikipedia article is pretty much nonsense - The Thai Forest Tradition, which in itself is a fairly broad umbrella, is fairly straight forward Theravada monasticism, with a Thai edge.
danieLion
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Re: is vipassana the main stream everywhere or just in the west?

Post by danieLion »

Mr Man wrote:
alan... wrote:In my opinion the wikipedia article is pretty much nonsense...
What about the Fronsdal article?
alan...
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Re: is vipassana the main stream everywhere or just in the west?

Post by alan... »

Mr Man wrote:
alan... wrote: i realize that. however in the west there is literally a very well known and very specific vipassana movement.
Possibly that should be "in the USA".

In my opinion the wikipedia article is pretty much nonsense - The Thai Forest Tradition, which in itself is a fairly broad umbrella, is fairly straight forward Theravada monasticism, with a Thai edge.
in englandhttp://www.dipa.dhamma.org/

in australiahttp://www.insightmeditationaustralia.org/

so not just in the US.

the article is nonsense? sure why not. the point i was making with it is that the word "vipassana" is frequently used to denote a certain tradition of practice and that i was not simply confused about what the definition is. the article existing at all proves this when combined with all the web sites i posted. that's all i was trying to show as the person didn't seem to know what i was talking about and you said something about there being "confusion" so i was trying to clear it up.
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Mr Man
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Re: is vipassana the main stream everywhere or just in the west?

Post by Mr Man »

danieLion wrote:
Mr Man wrote:
alan... wrote:In my opinion the wikipedia article is pretty much nonsense...
What about the Fronsdal article?
I hadn't read it but have now had a look; that seems more what I perceive the vippasana movement to be.
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Mr Man
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Re: is vipassana the main stream everywhere or just in the west?

Post by Mr Man »

alan... wrote:
Mr Man wrote:
alan... wrote: i realize that. however in the west there is literally a very well known and very specific vipassana movement.
Possibly that should be "in the USA".

In my opinion the wikipedia article is pretty much nonsense - The Thai Forest Tradition, which in itself is a fairly broad umbrella, is fairly straight forward Theravada monasticism, with a Thai edge.
in englandhttp://www.dipa.dhamma.org/

in australiahttp://www.insightmeditationaustralia.org/

so not just in the US.

the article is nonsense? sure why not. the point i was making with it is that the word "vipassana" is frequently used to denote a certain tradition of practice and that i was not simply confused about what the definition is. the article existing at all proves this when combined with all the web sites i posted. that's all i was trying to show as the person didn't seem to know what i was talking about and you said something about there being "confusion" so i was trying to clear it up.

I would't associate Goenka centres with "vipsana movement", they act and teach pretty much in isolation.

Where there is overlap, in the UK, is at somewhere like http://gaiahouse.co.uk/. More traditional forms are the "main stream" here (in my perception).
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tiltbillings
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Re: is vipassana the main stream everywhere or just in the west?

Post by tiltbillings »

Mr Man wrote: I would't associate Goenka centres with "vipsana movement", they act and teach pretty much in isolation.
That is your ongoing negative opinion directed at Goenka's method, which when challenged, you have never really reasonably backed up.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Cittasanto
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Re: is vipassana the main stream everywhere or just in the west?

Post by Cittasanto »

What about the IMC?
They teach essentially the same thing as Goenka (as I understand) and are from the same teacher Goenka's techneque originally stems. some isolation.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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Mr Man
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Re: is vipassana the main stream everywhere or just in the west?

Post by Mr Man »

tiltbillings wrote:
Mr Man wrote: I would't associate Goenka centres with "vipsana movement", they act and teach pretty much in isolation.
That is your ongoing negative opinion directed at Goenka's method, which when challenged, you have never really reasonably backed up.
That is a "negative" opinion is your perception. It is however a fairly accurate opinion.
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Mr Man
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Re: is vipassana the main stream everywhere or just in the west?

Post by Mr Man »

Cittasanto wrote:What about the IMC?
They teach essentially the same thing as Goenka (as I understand) and are from the same teacher Goenka's techneque originally stems. some isolation.
And yet they are quite separate and do not mix, unless things have changed. You will see or hear no reference to Goenka at IMC or hear no reference to Mother Sayama, Sayagi U Ba Khin's foremost disciple, at Goenka retreats.
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Cittasanto
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Re: is vipassana the main stream everywhere or just in the west?

Post by Cittasanto »

Mr Man wrote:
Cittasanto wrote:What about the IMC?
They teach essentially the same thing as Goenka (as I understand) and are from the same teacher Goenka's techneque originally stems. some isolation.
And yet they are quite separate and do not mix, unless things have changed. You will see or hear no reference to Goenka at IMC or hear no reference to Mother Sayama, Sayagi U Ba Khin's foremost disciple, at Goenka retreats.
if you go to one place they ask you to practice only their techneque, yet at another they ask you to only practice their techneque; this is nothing new, and does not mean they are not within the Vipassana umbrella.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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123ertyy
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Re: is vipassana the main stream everywhere or just in the west?

Post by 123ertyy »

Im glad that my country got many resources for meditation and to learn dhamma, since dhamma sermons can be heard from the media frequently. not many reap fortune out of it. I have to say that i had a chance to meet a monk who thrived many years in the forests meditating. Im sure he has attained high level of consciousness as you hear the words coming out of him. pure bliss, i felt why i'm still here laying back and trying to entertain the 6 senses ...

Gotta hurry up people, life's short! :)
We die someday.
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Mr Man
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Re: is vipassana the main stream everywhere or just in the west?

Post by Mr Man »

Cittasanto wrote:
Mr Man wrote:
Cittasanto wrote:What about the IMC?
They teach essentially the same thing as Goenka (as I understand) and are from the same teacher Goenka's techneque originally stems. some isolation.
And yet they are quite separate and do not mix, unless things have changed. You will see or hear no reference to Goenka at IMC or hear no reference to Mother Sayama, Sayagi U Ba Khin's foremost disciple, at Goenka retreats.
if you go to one place they ask you to practice only their techneque, yet at another they ask you to only practice their techneque; this is nothing new, and does not mean they are not within the Vipassana umbrella.
Hi Cittasanto, sorry but I don't see the relevance of your post.
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Cittasanto
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Re: is vipassana the main stream everywhere or just in the west?

Post by Cittasanto »

Mr Man wrote:
Cittasanto wrote: if you go to one place they ask you to practice only their techneque, yet at another they ask you to only practice their technique; this is nothing new, and does not mean they are not within the Vipassana umbrella.
Hi Cittasanto, sorry but I don't see the relevance of your post.
relivance = that is how meditation schools operate.
they don't teach a system outside of what they teach, and ask students to follow their style.
you appear to be trying to call a border collie a separate species from a sheep dog instead of different breeds of canine.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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Mr Man
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Re: is vipassana the main stream everywhere or just in the west?

Post by Mr Man »

Cittasanto wrote: relivance = that is how meditation schools operate.
they don't teach a system outside of what they teach, and ask students to follow their style.
They teach the same system but I think we are just getting distracted here.
you appear to be trying to call a border collie a separate species from a sheep dog instead of different breeds of canine.
Not sure what you mean.
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