the great rebirth debate

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
User avatar
Aloka
Posts: 5517
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Aloka » Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:51 pm


User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:22 am

As far as I can tell, in English rebirth and reincarnation are synonyms. Neither of them really capture the Buddhist POV, so splitting hairs over a couple of English words seems a bit pointless.

However, I would agree that are Tibetan Buddhist ideas (to do with Tulkas, etc) that don't appear in Theravada.

:anjali:
Mike

nibbuti
Posts: 155
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:36 pm
Location: Germany

Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby nibbuti » Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:41 am


User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:46 am

Well, that's my point. It is more useful to split hairs over what the suttas actually mean, not over whether some modern English words like rebirth and reincarnation are synonyms or not.

:anjali:
Mike

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:11 am


User avatar
Aloka
Posts: 5517
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Aloka » Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:10 am


User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:25 pm


User avatar
Rahula
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:34 am

Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Rahula » Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:16 pm


Raitanator
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:49 pm

Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Raitanator » Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:34 pm


User avatar
Aloka
Posts: 5517
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Aloka » Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:44 pm


User avatar
Rahula
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:34 am

Why I didn't believe in rebirth

Postby Rahula » Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:37 am

I didn't believe in rebirth as it was not obvious to me. It was not something my common sense captured. I like science. I learned science and physics was my favorite subject. I like to see the world in a more practical way. I want to examine and understand everything in a scientific way.

I thought people wanted to believe in rebirth as they were worried about death. Without rebirth, death is the end of us. Most people don't want that. They want someway to live again. They don't want to believe that death is the end of it. That's why a concept like rebirth might have come in to existence, I thought. I had read stories about children who spoke of their past life. People who reported these stories had found the family of that past life and claimed to be verified the story. But I was not very convinced as I had not seen such a event in real life, those were just stories to me. I didn't have any intention to find-out more. Even if I wanted to, it was not practical, I had other important work.

I am found of Astronomy. I spend most of my spare time reading about the Universe. Books by Stephen Hawking and others. Closely following Mars Curiosity these days etc.
But something like Karma & Rebirth was not logically understandable to me. And I was very open about it as well. I didn't believe it, but I hadn't rejected it as well. I don't reject anything because I don't understand it, I just keep an open mind, until one day I understand it fully.

Rebirth, this understanding came to me in a way I could not reject it no more.
Karma, now when I think about it as I believe rebirth, I can mostly understand it. When I look at the world in that view point, I see karma in action in everyone's life. Now I understand why poor people I know get tremendous amounts of trouble, one after another, while some rich people I know always get lucky at most things they do. I would have looked at same things in a logical way and explain them differently if I didn't believe in karma. But not anymore.

I always thought giving to poor, who needed it most should be always much better than giving it to Sangha, who already have more than they needed. But Buddha said otherwise, I didn't agree with him, until I believed in Karma. Now I see why giving to Sangha (more disciplined at-least) is better (for me) than giving to poor who are suffering their own akusala karma.

I know the way you are thinking, been there, done that.
That's why I mentioned earlier in another post "When will this debate end? Only when you, yourself witness it."

Why don't I just leave it there, thinking that you will understand it eventually?
Because I care. I want you to go find the truth, without waiting for it to come to you, as I did. You never know, it may never come.

The Truth is Out There...

.

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Why I didn't believe in rebirth

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:50 am


User avatar
Aloka
Posts: 5517
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Aloka » Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:46 am


User avatar
Rahula
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:34 am

Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Rahula » Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:41 am


Raitanator
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:49 pm

Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Raitanator » Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:14 pm


User avatar
Aloka
Posts: 5517
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Aloka » Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:31 pm


nibbuti
Posts: 155
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:36 pm
Location: Germany

Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby nibbuti » Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:54 pm


Raitanator
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:49 pm

Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Raitanator » Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:26 am

Well, my point was more like that "punish" is a wrong choice of word. "You reap what you sow" is more neutral perspective for that. Like I tried to say earlier, it would be more unfair if sickness and all that, if it's only randomly generated.

nibbuti
Posts: 155
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:36 pm
Location: Germany

Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby nibbuti » Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:54 am


User avatar
Aloka
Posts: 5517
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Aloka » Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:00 pm



Return to “General Theravāda discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: SarathW and 8 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine