Open mindedness

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Open mindedness

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:25 pm

What do you think open mindedness is

do you dismiss alternatives or consider them and find it worthy to question your theories through various means?
Last edited by Cittasanto on Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Open mindedness

Postby Yana » Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:49 am

Hi Cittasanto,

I think open mindness is keeping an open mind to other things besides our belief.It's not that we go just accepting everything.But atleast we can consider testing these various different theories.

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Re: Open mindedness

Postby mirco » Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:43 am

Well, I can't watch that video in my country due to copyright protection.

I think open mindedness is to accept everything that is going on in mind, without resisting or pushing anything away.

These processes in mind are just dependent arisen and impersonal, but if we start to take them personal and clinging starts, closed mind already happens. My two cents.

Regards :-)
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Re: Open mindedness

Postby ground » Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:22 am

Open mindedness is often advocated by those who want to put forward their beliefs, i.e. as a means of persuasion.

Not believing anything while accepting that others believe regardless of what they believe is perfect open mind. Such an open mind may be the result of mindfulness. :sage:
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Re: Open mindedness

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:42 am

ground wrote:Open mindedness is often advocated by those who want to put forward their beliefs, i.e. as a means of persuasion.

Not believing anything while accepting that others believe regardless of what they believe is perfect open mind. Such an open mind may be the result of mindfulness.
Thank you for sharing what you believe.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Open mindedness

Postby ground » Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:52 am

tiltbillings wrote:
ground wrote:Open mindedness is often advocated by those who want to put forward their beliefs, i.e. as a means of persuasion.

Not believing anything while accepting that others believe regardless of what they believe is perfect open mind. Such an open mind may be the result of mindfulness.
Thank you for sharing what you believe.

You cannot know whether there is belief. All you see is just words. If there would be belief then the words would not be the belief but just a means of expression. Meaning of words arises depending on eye contacting words qua forms. :sage:
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Re: Open mindedness

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:14 am

ground wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
ground wrote:Open mindedness is often advocated by those who want to put forward their beliefs, i.e. as a means of persuasion.

Not believing anything while accepting that others believe regardless of what they believe is perfect open mind. Such an open mind may be the result of mindfulness.
Thank you for sharing what you believe.

You cannot know whether there is belief. All you see is just words. If there would be belief then the words would not be the belief but just a means of expression. Meaning of words arises depending on eye contacting words qua forms.
Said Ground, expressing his belief. Thank you for sharing your expression of belief.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Open mindedness

Postby ground » Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:21 am

tiltbillings wrote:
ground wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:Thank you for sharing what you believe.

You cannot know whether there is belief. All you see is just words. If there would be belief then the words would not be the belief but just a means of expression. Meaning of words arises depending on eye contacting words qua forms.
Said Ground, expressing his belief. Thank you for sharing your expression of belief.

Remember: You cannot know. :sage:
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Re: Open mindedness

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:22 am

ground wrote:Remember: You cannot know.
Thank you, again, for sharing your belief.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Open mindedness

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:28 am

mirco wrote:Well, I can't watch that video in my country due to copyright protection.

I think open mindedness is to accept everything that is going on in mind, without resisting or pushing anything away.

These processes in mind are just dependent arisen and impersonal, but if we start to take them personal and clinging starts, closed mind already happens. My two cents.

Regards :-)

unfortunate, it is an interesting video. (watch this space I'll mirror it for a short time.

If the Buddha didn't resist... (fourth Noble truth) and wasn't open to a life without Dukkha (third noble truth) the extent he saw dukkha being present (the second noble truth) would not of been undermined and uprooted.

these four Noble Truths are to some degree an expression of open mindedness. a receptivity to new ideas (what has not been heard before) and seeing whether they fit reality. not necessarily an acceptance of anything, but an understanding of everything.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Open mindedness

Postby Spiny Norman » Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:32 am

Cittasanto wrote:What do you think open mindedness is


I don't take my opinions as seriously as I used to, I mean they are just opinions and it's OK not to know the answers. ;)
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Re: Open mindedness

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:46 am

porpoise wrote:
Cittasanto wrote:What do you think open mindedness is


I don't take my opinions as seriously as I used to, I mean they are just opinions and it's OK not to know the answers. ;)

:toast:
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Open mindedness

Postby nibbuti » Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:15 am

Hi cittasanta

Cittasanto wrote:What do you think open mindedness is
do you dismiss alternatives or consider them and find it worthy to question your theories through various means?


I think this is a perfect example of open mindedness by Ven. Sariputta:

"Friends, just as the footprints of all legged animals are encompassed by the footprint of the elephant, and the elephant's footprint is reckoned the foremost among them in terms of size; in the same way, all skillful qualities are gathered under the four noble truths. Under which four?
Under the noble truth of stress,
under the noble truth of the origination of stress,
under the noble truth of the cessation of stress,
and under the noble truth of the path of practice leading to the cessation of stress. - MN 28

But, as others suggested, 'open' mind can be ambiguous, as to what is to be dismissed and what is acceptable.

So a big-mind may be a better term, in accord with the big elephant footprint.

:meditate:
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Re: Open mindedness

Postby Spiny Norman » Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:51 pm

nibbuti wrote:But, as others suggested, 'open' mind can be ambiguous, as to what is to be dismissed and what is acceptable.


For me an open mind is less caught up in grasping and rejecting views, therefore less opinionated and more open to possibilites.
Possibly. :tongue:
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Re: Open mindedness

Postby nibbuti » Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:59 pm

porpoise wrote:For me an open mind is less caught up in grasping and rejecting views, therefore less opinionated and more open to possibilites.
Possibly. :tongue:

Possibly. But some views are necessary in conventional life to plan ahead and not starve. The Buddha taught wise view rather than no view.

:popcorn:
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Re: Open mindedness

Postby whynotme » Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:15 pm

nibbuti, you are wise
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Re: Open mindedness

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:56 pm

Another video from the same author which is of relevance.

particularly the 2min mark
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Open mindedness

Postby mirco » Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:47 pm

Cittasanto wrote:
mirco wrote:I think open mindedness is to accept everything that is going on in mind, without resisting or pushing anything away.

These processes in mind are just dependent arisen and impersonal, but if we start to take them personal and clinging starts, closed mind already happens.

If the Buddha didn't resist... (fourth Noble truth) and wasn't open to a life without Dukkha (third noble truth) the extent he saw dukkha being present (the second noble truth) would not of been undermined and uprooted. These four Noble Truths are to some degree an expression of open mindedness. A receptivity to new ideas (what has not been heard before) and seeing whether they fit reality. not necessarily an acceptance of anything, but an understanding of everything.

O.k., understand that and I don't think both our understandings differs very much.

In order to understand something it has to be there. Performing any mental activity aiming not to experience a certain mental state means having no chance to investigate that thing, because you can't watch what isn't there.

If one is, i.e. used to mentally (and physically) push unwanted feelings away, you can't understand how exactly that feeling it works (arise, exist, descend). But that would lead to liberation. I'm the best example for that shit since I'm having a hard time everyday working on not to feel unwanted emotions.

Regards :-)
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Re: Open mindedness

Postby mirco » Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:52 pm

nibbuti wrote:Possibly. But some views are necessary in conventional life to plan ahead and not starve. The Buddha taught wise view rather than no view.

But what is "viewing with wisdom"?
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Re: Open mindedness

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:08 am

mirco wrote:
Cittasanto wrote:
mirco wrote:I think open mindedness is to accept everything that is going on in mind, without resisting or pushing anything away.

These processes in mind are just dependent arisen and impersonal, but if we start to take them personal and clinging starts, closed mind already happens.

If the Buddha didn't resist... (fourth Noble truth) and wasn't open to a life without Dukkha (third noble truth) the extent he saw dukkha being present (the second noble truth) would not of been undermined and uprooted. These four Noble Truths are to some degree an expression of open mindedness. A receptivity to new ideas (what has not been heard before) and seeing whether they fit reality. not necessarily an acceptance of anything, but an understanding of everything.

O.k., understand that and I don't think both our understandings differs very much.

In order to understand something it has to be there. Performing any mental activity aiming not to experience a certain mental state means having no chance to investigate that thing, because you can't watch what isn't there.

If one is, i.e. used to mentally (and physically) push unwanted feelings away, you can't understand how exactly that feeling it works (arise, exist, descend). But that would lead to liberation. I'm the best example for that shit since I'm having a hard time everyday working on not to feel unwanted emotions.

Regards :-)

actually I will change that slightly (underlined).
If the Buddha didn't resist... (fourth Noble truth) and wasn't open to a life without Dukkha (third noble truth) the extent he saw dukkha being present (the first noble truth) would not of been undermined and uprooted through first finding and understanding the full extent of the problem (second noble truth). These four Noble Truths are to some degree an expression of open mindedness. A receptivity to new ideas (what has not been heard before) and seeing whether they fit reality. not necessarily an acceptance of anything, but an understanding of everything.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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