Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
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Postby clw_uk » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:03 pm

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Re: paṇḍaka

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:13 pm

I have no idea about the legalities, but I have a couple of observations.

Kathoey (AKA "lady boys") in my experience refers to transgender people, not gay.

Both Gays and transgender people are, in my experience, quite accepted in Thailand. More so, I would guess, than in the West. However, such things are very difficult to ascertain, and depend a lot on who one associates with...


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Re: paṇḍaka

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:42 pm

Greetings Craig,

On my computer the third and fourth characters are unrecognised and therefore come up as boxes.

I assume you're talking about a "pandaka", yes?

Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Re: paṇḍaka

Postby appicchato » Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:19 am

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Re: paṇḍaka

Postby Individual » Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:20 am

There's these two old articles which can help clarify things: ... 22,0,0,1,0 ... 29,0,0,1,0

Simply put, the term's meaning is ambiguous and debatable. I haven't seen a perfectly convincing argument that the term means one thing or the other.
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Re: paṇḍaka

Postby karuna_murti » Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:46 am

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Re: paṇḍaka

Postby Individual » Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:36 am

The best things in life aren't things.

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Re: paṇḍaka

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:51 am

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Re: paṇḍaka

Postby cooran » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:21 am

Hello all,

A little from

A type of person called a pandaka is occasionally mentioned in the Vinaya in contexts that make it clear that such a person is some kind of sexual non-conformist. The Vinaya also stipulates that pandakas are not allowed to be ordained, and if, inadvertently, one has been, he is expelled. According to commentary, this is because pandakas are "full of passions, unquenchable lust and are dominated by the desire for sex." The word pandaka has been translated as either hermaphrodite or eunuch, while Zwilling has recently suggested that it may simply mean a homosexual. It is more probable that ancient Indians, like most modern Asians, considered only the extremely effeminate, exhibitionist homosexual (the screaming queen in popular perception) to be deviant while the less obvious homosexual was simply considered a little more opportunistic or a little less fussy than other 'normal' males. As the Buddha seems to have had a profound understanding of human nature and have been remarkably free from prejudice, and as there is not evidence that homosexuals are any more libidinous or that they have any more difficulties in maintaining celibacy than heterosexuals, it seems unlikely that the Buddha would exclude homosexuals per se from the monastic life. The term pandaka therefore probably does not refer to homosexuals in general but rather to the effeminate, self-advertising and promiscuous homosexual.

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Re: paṇḍaka

Postby Individual » Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:26 pm

The best things in life aren't things.

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