Ud 4.1: Meghiya Sutta

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Ud 4.1: Meghiya Sutta

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:15 am

Ud 4.1 PTS: Ud 34
Meghiya Sutta: Meghiya
translated from the Pali by John D. Ireland


An over-eager monk is assailed by unskillful states of mind, and the Buddha reminds him of the importance of associating with admirable friends.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .irel.html



Thus have I heard. At one time the Lord was staying at Calika on Calika Hill. At that time the Venerable Meghiya was the Lord's attendant. Then the Venerable Meghiya approached the Lord, prostrated himself, stood to one side, and said: "I wish to go into Jantu village for almsfood, revered sir."

"Do now, Meghiya, what you think it is time to do."

Then the Venerable Meghiya, having put on his robe in the forenoon and taken his bowl and outer cloak, entered Jantu village for almsfood. Having walked in Jantu village for almsfood, after the meal, on returning from collecting almsfood, he approached the bank of the river Kimikala. As he was walking and wandering up and down beside the river for exercise, he saw a pleasant and charming mango grove. On seeing it he thought: "This mango grove is very pleasant and charming. It is eminently suitable for the endeavor (in meditation) of a young man of good family who is intent on the endeavor. If the Lord were to give me permission, I would come and endeavor in this mango grove."

Then the Venerable Meghiya approached the Lord, prostrated himself, sat down to one side, and said: "Revered sir, having put on my robe in the forenoon... I approached the bank of the river Kimikala and saw a pleasant and charming mango grove. On seeing it I thought: 'This mango grove is very pleasant and charming. It is eminently suitable for the endeavor (in meditation) of a young man of good family who is intent on the endeavor. If the Lord were to give me permission, I would come and endeavor in this mango grove.' If, revered sir, the Lord gives me permission, I would go to that mango grove to endeavor (in meditation)."

When this was said the Lord replied to the Venerable Meghiya: "As we are alone, Meghiya, wait a while until some other bhikkhu comes."

A second time the Venerable Meghiya said to the Lord: "Revered sir, the Lord has nothing further that should be done and nothing to add to what has been done. But for me, revered sir, there is something further that should be done and something to add to what has been done. If, revered sir, the Lord gives me permission, I would go to that mango grove to endeavor (in meditation)."

A second time the Lord replied to the Venerable Meghiya: "As we are alone, Meghiya, wait a while until some other bhikkhu comes."

A third time the Venerable Meghiya said to the Lord: "Revered sir, the Lord has nothing further that should be done... I would go to that mango grove to endeavor (in meditation)."

"As you are talking of endeavoring, Meghiya, what can I say? Do now, Meghiya, what you think it is time to do."

Then the Venerable Meghiya rose from his seat, prostrated himself before the Lord, and keeping his right side towards him, went to that mango grove. On entering that mango grove he sat down at the foot of a certain tree for the rest period during the middle of the day.

Now while the Venerable Meghiya was staying in that mango grove, there kept occurring to him three bad, unwholesome kinds of thoughts: sensual thought, malevolent thought, and cruel thought. The Venerable Meghiya then reflected: "It is indeed strange! It is indeed remarkable! Although I have gone forth out of faith from home to the homeless state, yet I am overwhelmed by these three bad, unwholesome kinds of thoughts: sensual thought, malevolent thought, and cruel thought."

Then the Venerable Meghiya, on emerging from seclusion in the late afternoon, approached the Lord, prostrated himself, sat down to one side, and said: "Revered sir, while I was staying in that mango grove there kept occurring to me three bad, unwholesome kinds of thoughts... and I thought: 'It is indeed strange!... I am overwhelmed by these three bad, unwholesome kinds of thoughts: sensual thought, malevolent thought, and cruel thought.'"

"When mind-deliverance is as yet immature, Meghiya, five things lead to its maturity. What five?

"Here, Meghiya, a bhikkhu has good friends, good associates, good companions. When mind-deliverance is as yet immature, Meghiya, this is the first thing that leads to its maturity.

"Furthermore, Meghiya, a bhikkhu is virtuous, he lives restrained by the restraint of the Patimokkha, endowed with conduct and resort; seeing danger in the smallest faults, he trains in the training rules he has accepted. When mind-deliverance is as yet immature, Meghiya, this is the second thing that leads to its maturity.

"Furthermore, Meghiya, a bhikkhu obtains at will, with no trouble or difficulty, talk that is effacing, a help in opening up the mind, and which conduces to complete turning away, dispassion, cessation, peace, direct knowledge, enlightenment, and Nibbana — that is, talk about fewness of wishes, talk about contentment, talk about seclusion, talk about being non-gregarious, talk about putting forth energy, talk about virtue, talk about concentration, talk about wisdom, talk about deliverance, talk about the knowledge and vision of deliverance. When mind-deliverance is as yet immature, Meghiya, this is the third thing that leads to its maturity.

"Furthermore, Meghiya, a bhikkhu lives with energy instigated for the abandoning of unwholesome states and the acquiring of wholesome states; he is vigorous, energetic, and persevering with regard to wholesome states. When mind-deliverance is as yet immature, Meghiya, this is the fourth thing that leads to its maturity.

"Furthermore, Meghiya, a bhikkhu is wise, endowed with the noble ones' penetrative understanding of rise and disappearance leading to the complete ending of suffering. When mind-deliverance is as yet immature, Meghiya, this is the fifth thing that leads to its maturity. When mind-deliverance is as yet immature, Meghiya, these five things lead to its maturity.

"It is to be expected of a bhikkhu who has good friends, good associates, good companions, that he will be virtuous, that he will live restrained by the restraint of the Patimokkha, endowed with conduct and resort, and that seeing danger in the smallest faults, he will train in the training rules he has accepted. It is to be expected of a bhikkhu who has good friends... that he will obtain at will, with no trouble or difficulty, talk that is effacing, a help in opening up the mind... talk about the knowledge and vision of deliverance. It is to be expected of a bhikkhu who has good friends... that he will live with energy instigated... vigorous, energetic, and persevering with regard to wholesome states. It is to be expected of a bhikkhu who has good friends... that he will be wise, endowed with the noble ones' penetrative understanding of rise and disappearance leading to the complete ending of suffering.

"A bhikkhu, Meghiya, who is established in these five things should also cultivate four additional things: foulness should be cultivated for overcoming lust; loving-kindness should be cultivated for overcoming malevolence; respiration-mindfulness should be cultivated for cutting off (discursive) thinking; the perception of impermanence should be cultivated for the removal of the conceit 'I am.' For when one perceives impermanence, Meghiya, the perception of not-self is established. When one perceives not-self one reaches the removal of the conceit 'I am,' which is called Nibbana here and now."

Then, on realizing its significance, the Lord uttered on that occasion this inspired utterance:

Trivial thoughts, subtle thoughts,
Mental jerkings that follow one along:
Not understanding these mental thoughts,
One runs back and forth with wandering mind.

But having known these mental thoughts,
The ardent and mindful one restrains them.
An awakened one has entirely abandoned them,
These mental jerkings that follow one along.
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Re: Ud 4.1: Meghiya Sutta

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:18 am

Ud 4.1 PTS: Ud 34
Meghiya Sutta: About Meghiya
translated from the Pali by Thanissaro Bhikkhu


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html



I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying among the Cālikans, at Cālikā Mountain. And on that occasion Ven. Meghiya was his attendant. Then Ven. Meghiya went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to him, stood to one side. As he was standing there he said to the Blessed One, "I would like to go into Jantu Village for alms."

"Then do, Meghiya, what you think it is now time to do."

Then in the early morning, Ven. Meghiya adjusted his under robe and — carrying his bowl & robes — went into Jantu Village for alms. Having gone for alms in Jantu Village, after the meal, returning from his alms round, he went to the bank of the Kimikālā River. As he was walking up & down along the bank of the river to exercise his legs, he saw a pleasing, charming mango grove. Seeing it, the thought occurred to him: "How pleasing & charming this mango grove! It's enough for a young man of good family intent on exertion to exert himself [in meditation]. If the Blessed One gives me permission, I would like to exert myself [in meditation] in this mango grove."

So Ven. Meghiya went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to him, sat to one side. As he was sitting there he said to the Blessed One, "Just now, in the early morning, I adjusted my under robe and — carrying my bowl & robes — went into Jantu Village for alms. Having gone for alms in Jantu Village, after the meal, returning from my alms round, I went to the bank of the Kimikālā River. As I was walking up & down along the bank of the river to exercise my legs, I saw a pleasing, charming mango grove. Seeing it, the thought occurred to me: 'How pleasing & charming this mango grove! It's enough for a young man of good family intent on exertion to exert himself [in meditation]. If the Blessed One gives me permission, I would like to exert myself [in meditation] in this mango grove.' If the Blessed One gives me permission, I would like to go to the mango grove to exert myself [in meditation]."

When this was said, the Blessed One responded to Ven. Meghiya, "As long as I am still alone, stay here until another monk comes."

A second time, Ven. Meghiya said to the Blessed One, "Lord, the Blessed One has nothing further to do, and nothing further to add to what he has done. I, however, have something further to do, and something further to add to what I have done. If the Blessed One gives me permission, I would like to go to the mango grove to exert myself [in meditation]."

A second time, the Blessed One responded to Ven. Meghiya, "As long as I am still alone, stay here until another monk comes."

A third time, Ven. Meghiya said to the Blessed One, "Lord, the Blessed One has nothing further to do, and nothing further to add to what he has done. I, however, have something further to do, and something further to add to what I have done. If the Blessed One gives me permission, I would like to go to the mango grove to exert myself [in meditation]."

"As you are talking about exertion, Meghiya, what can we say? Do what you think it is now time to do."

Then Ven. Meghiya, rising from his seat, bowing down to the Blessed One and, circling him to the right, went to the mango grove. On arrival, having gone deep into the grove, he sat down at the root of a certain tree for the day's abiding.

Now while Ven. Meghiya was staying in the mango grove, he was for the most part assailed by three kinds of unskillful thoughts: thoughts of sensuality, thoughts of ill will, and thoughts of doing harm. The thought occurred to him: "How amazing! How astounding! Even though it was through faith that I went forth from home to the homeless life, still I am overpowered by these three kinds of unskillful thoughts: thoughts of sensuality, thoughts of ill will, and thoughts of doing harm."

Emerging from his seclusion in the late afternoon, he went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to him, sat to one side. As he was sitting there he said to the Blessed One, "Just now, while I was staying in the mango grove, I was for the most part assailed by three kinds of unskillful thoughts: thoughts of sensuality, thoughts of ill will, and thoughts of doing harm. The thought occurred to me: 'How amazing! How astounding! Even though it was through faith that I went forth from home to the homeless life, still I am overpowered by these three kinds of unskillful thoughts: thoughts of sensuality, thoughts of ill will, and thoughts of doing harm.'"

"Meghiya, in one whose awareness-release is still immature, five qualities bring it to maturity. Which five?

"There is the case where a monk has admirable people as friends, companions, & colleagues. In one whose awareness-release is still immature, this is the first quality that brings it to maturity.

"Furthermore, the monk is virtuous. He dwells restrained in accordance with the Pāṭimokkha, consummate in his behavior & range of activity. He trains himself, having undertaken the training rules, seeing danger in the slightest faults. In one whose awareness-release is still immature, this is the second quality that brings it to maturity.

"Furthermore, he gets to hear at will, easily and without difficulty, talk that is truly sobering and conducive to the opening of awareness, i.e., talk on modesty, contentment, seclusion, non-entanglement, arousing persistence, virtue, concentration, discernment, release, and the knowledge & vision of release. In one whose awareness-release is still immature, this is the third quality that brings it to maturity.

"Furthermore, he keeps his persistence aroused for abandoning unskillful [mental] qualities and for taking on skillful qualities. He is steadfast, solid in his effort, not shirking his duties with regard to skillful qualities. In one whose awareness-release is still immature, this is the fourth quality that brings it to maturity.

"Furthermore, he is discerning, endowed with the discernment related to arising & passing away — noble, penetrating, leading to the right ending of stress. In one whose awareness-release is still immature, this is the fifth quality that brings it to maturity.

"Meghiya, in one whose awareness-release is still immature, these are the five qualities that bring it to maturity.

"Meghiya, when a monk has admirable people as friends, companions, & colleagues, it is to be expected that he will be virtuous, will dwell restrained in accordance with the Pāṭimokkha, consummate in his behavior & range of activity, and will train himself, having undertaken the training rules, seeing danger in the slightest faults.

"When a monk has admirable people as friends & colleagues, it is to be expected that he will get to hear at will, easily and without difficulty, talk that is truly sobering and conducive to the opening of awareness, i.e., talk on modesty, contentment, seclusion, non-entanglement, arousing persistence, virtue, concentration, discernment, release, and the knowledge & vision of release.

"When a monk has admirable people as friends, companions, & colleagues, it is to be expected that he will keep his persistence aroused for abandoning unskillful qualities and for taking on skillful qualities — steadfast, solid in his effort, not shirking his duties with regard to skillful qualities.

"When a monk has admirable people as friends, companions, & colleagues, it is to be expected that he will be discerning, endowed with the discernment relating to arising & passing away — noble, penetrating, leading to the right ending of stress.

"And furthermore, when the monk is established in these five qualities, there are four additional qualities he should develop: He should develop [contemplation of] the unattractive so as to abandon passion. He should develop good will so as to abandon ill will. He should develop mindfulness of in-&-out breathing so as to cut off thinking. He should develop the perception of inconstancy so as to uproot the conceit, 'I am.' [1] For a monk perceiving inconstancy, the perception of not-self is made steady. One perceiving not-self attains the uprooting of the conceit, 'I am' — unbinding right in the here-&-now."

Then, on realizing the significance of that, the Blessed One on that occasion exclaimed:

Little thoughts, subtle thoughts,
when followed, stir up the heart.
Not comprehending the thoughts of the heart,
one runs here & there, the mind out of control.

But comprehending the thoughts of the heart,
one who is ardent, mindful,
restrains them.
When, followed, they stir up the heart,
one awakened
lets them go without trace.

Note

1. See Ud 1.1, note 3. http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .html#fn-3

See also:
SN 45.2; http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
AN 8.2; http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
AN 9.1. http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
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Re: Ud 4.1: Meghiya Sutta

Postby James the Giant » Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:25 pm

This is another of those instances when Ven Thanissaro uses "heart" instead of the more conventional "mind".
I don't like it, but I guess he has his reasons. Does anyone know of a link where it is explained why he uses "heart"?

John D. Ireland's translation:

Trivial thoughts, subtle thoughts,
Mental jerkings that follow one along:
Not understanding these mental thoughts,
One runs back and forth with wandering mind.

But having known these mental thoughts,
The ardent and mindful one restrains them.
An awakened one has entirely abandoned them,
These mental jerkings that follow one along.


Thanissaro Bhikkhu's translation:

Little thoughts, subtle thoughts,
when followed, stir up the heart.
Not comprehending the thoughts of the heart,
one runs here & there, the mind out of control.

But comprehending the thoughts of the heart,
one who is ardent, mindful,
restrains them.
When, followed, they stir up the heart,
one awakened
lets them go without trace.



On reading the sutta, I was interested to speculate why the Buddha twice asked Meghiya to wait before going to the orchard to meditate. Perhaps Meghiya was a relatively new bhikkhu whose awareness was still "immature", so the Buddha wanted him to be alone less and associate with admirable friends more?
Or was it just that the Buddha had nobody else to attend to him at that time?
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11
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Re: Ud 4.1: Meghiya Sutta

Postby santa100 » Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:03 pm

Ven. T probably just uses common expression. Like when an evil person with evil thoughts is commonly described as someone with an evil heart, or a black-hearted person..

About the delay, it was for Ven. Meghia's own benefit because his mind-deliverance is still immature and so, he'll need all 5 qualities that'll lead to its maturity. The first quality the Buddha mentioned was: "good friends, good associates, good companions". This quality would be absent when Meghia ventured into that mango grove alone..
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Re: Ud 4.1: Meghiya Sutta

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:14 pm

Hi James,

Thank you for pointing out the distinctions. Consulting different translations can be very rewarding...

My understanding is that languages like Pali (and most Asian languages) don't really separate affective reactions ("heart") and thinking. In the cittanupassna section of the Satipatthana Sutta http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html we have, for example:
"And how does a monk remain focused on the mind in & of itself? There is the case where a monk, when the mind has passion, discerns that the mind has passion. When the mind is without passion, he discerns that the mind is without passion. When the mind has aversion, he discerns that the mind has aversion. When the mind is without aversion, he discerns that the mind is without aversion. When the mind has delusion, he discerns that the mind has delusion. When the mind is without delusion, he discerns that the mind is without delusion.


There are some subtle distinctions between citta, viññāna, and mano, but I don't have a good reference...

:anjali:
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Re: Ud 4.1: Meghiya Sutta

Postby danieLion » Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:46 am

mikenz66 wrote:Hi James...,
There are some subtle distinctions between citta, viññāna, and mano, but I don't have a good reference...
:anjali:
Mike

-Citta, Mano, Vinnana--A Psychosemantic Investigation by Rune E.A. Johansson
-Re: Uncertain Minds: How the West Misunderstands Buddhism: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=12798&p=194653&hilit=+mano+citta+vinnana#p194653
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Re: Ud 4.1: Meghiya Sutta

Postby danieLion » Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:14 am

Hi James,
James the Giant wrote:This is another of those instances when Ven Thanissaro uses "heart" instead of the more conventional "mind".
I don't like it, but I guess he has his reasons. Does anyone know of a link where it is explained why he uses "heart"?

IMO, he's trying to straddle Asian and Anglo uses of mind. Anglo's (mostly) tend to conceptualize the mind as in the head, despite recent challenges from Anglo philosophers and brain scientists that the distinction between mind and heart is not so sharp. Our brains are in constant communication with our literal hearts (and guts) and the idea that the brain and the rest of the nervous system are separate is, ironically (as a mental function), imaginary.

IMO, it might also have something to do with Reverend Lee's and Reverend Maha Boowa's use of "citta". Rev. T. translated a lot of their works and the use of "heart" is predominate.

As to links, you should find the first two pages of this ATI search useful: HEART.

Finally, from his translation of SN 12.61 (Assutava Sutta), we find this passage:
But, indeed, that which, monks, is called ‘mind’, or ‘thought’, or ‘consciousness’, the ordinary person, in every way unlearned in spiritual knowledge, not enough to turn away, not enough to become detached, not enough to be released. What is the reason for this? Because for a long time, monks, that ‘mind’, or ‘thought’, or ‘consciousness’ of the ordinary person, in every way unlearned in spiritual knowledge, has been clung to, has been cherished, has been fondled: ‘This is mine, this I am, this is my self’. Because of that, the ordinary person, in every way unlearned in spiritual knowledge, not enough to turn away, not enough to become detached, not enough to be released.But, indeed, that which, monks, is called ‘mind’, or ‘thought’, or ‘consciousness’, the ordinary person, in every way unlearned in spiritual knowledge, not enough to turn away, not enough to become detached, not enough to be released. What is the reason for this? Because for a long time, monks, that ‘mind’, or ‘thought’, or ‘consciousness’ of the ordinary person, in every way unlearned in spiritual knowledge, has been clung to, has been cherished, has been fondled: ‘This is mine, this I am, this is my self’. Because of that, the ordinary person, in every way unlearned in spiritual knowledge, not enough to turn away, not enough to become detached, not enough to be released.

To which he notes (Note [4]):
“Yañca kho etaṃ, bhikkhave, vuccati cittaṃ itipi, mano itipi, viññāṇaṃ itipi...” The quotation marks placed around each term in the translation are justified by the fact that the Pali has “vuccati cittaṃ iti pi, mano iti pi, viññāṇaṃ iti pi”, “It is called “citta” or “mano” or “viññāṇa””: the particle iti after each term functions as a “quotation marker”, corresponding to the verb vuccati, “it is called...”. These three terms demand a very detailed, comprehensive and lengthy analysis; which, of course, cannot possibly be provided in a footnote. If this sutta were presenting a more detailed technical and theoretical discussion, such as we do indeed find in many other suttas, then it would be more appropriate to translate these terms more precisely: for example, citta as “subjective mind”, mano as “cognitive faculty”, and viññāṇa as “sensory consciousness” (that is, consciousness when functioning in the mode of the six sense bases (saḍāyatana), although viññāṇa also has two further special technical senses and uses in the suttas). But the present sutta is very clearly not intended to be technically and theoretically precise about this particular subject. In fact, one of the points that the sutta seems to suggest is that for the ordinary, unlearned person these three terms are quite interchangeable: “six of one and half a dozen of the other”, as the English idiom goes. For this reason, it is much more appropriate to translate these three terms more loosely and ambiguously; but this is somewhat difficult to do in English because, unlike Sanskrit and Pali, English does not have a very extensive vocabulary with which to indicate the subtleties of “consciousness” or “mind”. We can see from the context in which these three terms are actually used in this sutta that what is in question here is the way in which the unlearned or uninformed person thinks of these terms: how he or she conflates them due to lack of analytical understanding, and how he or she relates to what he or she thinks of as his or her “own mind”: namely, identifying it and cherishing as the private, personal “self” (attā).

This partial statement, “cittaṃ itipi, mano itipi, viññāṇaṃ itipi”, is very frequently quoted — in isolation, out of context — by proponents and commentators of the Abhidhamma and of Abhidhamma-influenced schools, in support of the stereotypical Abhidhamma view that the terms citta, mano, and viññāṇa are somehow “synonymous”. Only one other similar passage can be found in the Suttanta Piṭaka, in DN 1 (Brahmajāla Sutta; PTS DN i.1), at DN i.21, but this passage is rarely cited, for an obvious reason: “Yaṃ ca kho idaṃ vuccati cittanti vā mano'ti vā viññāṇanti vā...” “That which is called ‘citta’ or ‘mano’ or ‘viññāṇa’...” There, in DN 1, it is put into the mouth of the kind of “reasoner” (takkī) who wrongly argues that “mind” is a permanent, eternal, unchanging “self” (attā). It is therefore very interesting and very important to note that here, too, in SN 12.61, this same formula occurs in the context of a description of the way of thinking of the “tatrāssutavā puthujjano”, the “in every way spiritually-unlearned ordinary person”. This crucial matter is too detailed and complex to discuss here in a brief footnote, but it can hopefully be addressed in detail and in depth on a different occasion. Suffice it to say that I am not asserting that citta, mano, and viññāṇa are distinct and separate “things”, but that they refer to quite distinct and non-inter-reducible functions and properties of “mind” as such. To claim that they are “mere synonyms” is, very crudely speaking, rather like claiming that the words “steam”, “liquid”, and “ice” are all “mere synonyms”. To be sure, they may all refer to forms of “water”; but it would be plainly and simply wrong to claim that they are therefore merely “synonymous”.

Hope that helps.
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Re: Ud 4.1: Meghiya Sutta

Postby daverupa » Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:19 am

danieLion wrote:Citta, Mano, Vinnana--A Psychosemantic Investigation by Rune E.A. Johansson


I recommend this piece, as my preference is always to study such complex terms in situ. The footnote citation, above, is a fantastic find.

The fact that the vedana tetrad in satipatthana refers to citta-sankhara is noteworthy in this context, I expect.
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: Ud 4.1: Meghiya Sutta

Postby danieLion » Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:49 am

daverupa wrote:
danieLion wrote:Citta, Mano, Vinnana--A Psychosemantic Investigation by Rune E.A. Johansson


I recommend this piece, as my preference is always to study such complex terms in situ. The footnote citation, above, is a fantastic find.
:namaste:

daverupa wrote:The fact that the vedana tetrad in satipatthana refers to citta-sankhara is noteworthy in this context, I expect.
Absolutely.
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