Is Theravada straightforward?

[mikenz66]

but is realization straightforward?

I'm not sure about actual realization but I think the conceptualization is certainly fairly straightforward and not overly technical.

But the conceptualization is still just the "finger pointing at the moon", isn't it? And which conceptual map are you referring to, the commentarial progress of insight, or some other map?

The Forest tradition (in it's broad context, not just the Ajahn Chah group) is very diverse

In my opinion it is not really that broad and diverse. The key uniting element was practicing within the vinaya and following a certain style of practice.

But which style of practice is that? I see a huge diversity, even in the Western Ajahn Chah students. Ajahn Brahm and some others teach a Visuddhimagga-strength jhana approach. Many others, such as Ajahn Tiradhammo, teach a vipassana-oriented style that is quite compatible with what many Mahasi teachers teach. (On one retreat I did with Ajahn Tiradhammo he mentioned Ven Nyanaponika's book Heart of Buddhist Meditation as a key reference in his early development).


Mike

[Mr Man]

As laypeople we could make and keep our practice fairly straight forward, We could base it on the advice to Dhammika http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/snp/snp.2.14.irel.html.
I think that possibly we have become rather to materilistic in our practice with the focus of attainments and the like, or intellectual sophistication: 'Look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves'

[mikenz66]

I think that's related to the points raised in this thread. The intellectual sophistication is not the truth.


Mike

[mikenz66]

Any comments on these statements?

To paraphrase some of Patrick Kearney's points:

Truth is found in a person and a way of life. Truth transforms. If I've found truth, I'll be living in a different way. If this transformation has not happened then I have not connected with this truth.

The Noble Truths are described as things we do.
Realising the Noble Truths has to do with awakening to dukkha ('This Origin of Suffering as a noble truth should be eradicated') and the possibility of a way out ('This Path leading to the cessation of suffering, as a noble truth, should be developed')

Mike

[Mr Man]

but is realization straightforward?

I'm not sure about actual realization but I think the conceptualization is certainly fairly straightforward and not overly technical.

But the conceptualization is still just the "finger pointing at the moon", isn't it? And which conceptual map are you referring to, the commentarial progress of insight, or some other map?

The Forest tradition (in it's broad context, not just the Ajahn Chah group) is very diverse

In my opinion it is not really that broad and diverse. The key uniting element was practicing within the vinaya and following a certain style of practice.

But which style of practice is that? I see a huge diversity, even in the Western Ajahn Chah students. Ajahn Brahm and some others teach a Visuddhimagga-strength jhana approach. Many others, such as Ajahn Tiradhammo, teach a vipassana-oriented style that is quite compatible with what many Mahasi teachers teach. (On one retreat I did with Ajahn Tiradhammo he mentioned Ven Nyanaponika's book Heart of Buddhist Meditation as a key reference in his early development).

Hi Mike, I wasn't referring to a particular conceptual map and I was thinking more of the Thai forest tradition as it was. The style of practice was keeping vinaya, pindapat, sweeping paths, dying robes, chanting, tudong, perseverance, kammaṭṭhāna