"She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.

Re: "She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Postby Annapurna » Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:47 pm

Yana wrote:
Mawkish1983 wrote:
I thought it was worth saying.
um..no not really.


:thumbsup:
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Re: "She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Postby cooran » Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:50 pm

So .... as this is a Buddhist discussion board, how would the Buddha's Teachings guide us to consider, say and act over this matter?
Towards ourselves, and towards others?

with metta
Chris
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Re: "She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Postby Annapurna » Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:59 pm

http://www.google.de/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=& ... 4169,d.bGE
NEW DELHI (AP) — The companion of a woman who was gang-raped aboard a bus in New Delhi recounted in a television interview for the first time Friday how the pair was attacked for 2 1/2 hours before being thrown on the side of the road, where passersby ignored them and police debated jurisdiction issues before helping them.

The Dec. 16 attack has outraged Indians and led to calls for tougher rape laws and reforms of a police culture that often blames rape victims and refuses to file charges against accused attackers. The nation's top law enforcement official said the country needs to crack down on crimes against women with "an iron hand."

The 23-year-old woman died over the weekend from massive internal injuries suffered during the attack. Authorities charged five men with her murder and rape and were holding a sixth suspect believed to be a juvenile. A hearing in the case is scheduled for Saturday.

The woman and her male friend had just finished watching the movie "Life of Pi" at an upscale mall and were looking for a ride home. An autorickshaw driver declined to take them so they boarded the private bus with the six assailants inside, the companion told the Indian TV network Zee TV.

Authorities have not named the man because of the sensitivity of the case. The TV station also declined to give his name, although it did show his face during the interview. The man has a broken leg and was sitting in a wheelchair during the interview.

After a while, the men on the bus starting harassing and attacking the pair, he said.

"I gave a tough fight to three of them. I punched them hard. But then two others hit me with an iron rod," he said. The woman tried to call the police using her mobile phone, but the men took it away from her, he said. They then took her to the rear seats of the bus and raped her.

"The attack was so brutal I can't even tell you ... even animals don't behave like that," he said.

Afterward, he overheard some of the attackers saying she was dead, he said.

The men then dumped their bleeding and naked bodies under an overpass. He waved to passers-by on bikes, in autorickshaws and in cars for help.

"They slowed down, looked at our naked bodies and left," he said. After about 20 minutes, three police vans arrived and the officers began arguing over who had jurisdiction over the crime as the man pleaded for clothes and an ambulance, he said.

The man said he was given no medical care. Instead, he spent four days at the police station helping them investigate the crime. He said he visited his friend in the hospital, told her the attackers were arrested and promised to fight for her.

"She has awakened us all by her courage," he said. "People should move ahead in the struggle to prevent a similar crime happening again as a tribute to her."

On Friday, Home Minister Sushilkumar Shinde said crimes against women and marginalized sections of society are increasing, and it is the government's responsibility to stop them.

"This needs to be curbed by an iron hand," he told a conference of state officials from across India that was called to discuss how to protect women.

He called for changes in the law and the way police investigate cases so justice can be swiftly delivered. Many rape cases are bogged down in India's overburdened and sluggish court system for years.

"We need a reappraisal of the entire system," he said.

In the wake of the rape, several petitioners appealed to the Supreme Court to take an active role in the issue of women's safety.

On Friday, the court dismissed a petition asking it to suspend Indian lawmakers accused of crimes against women, saying it doesn't have jurisdiction, according to the Press Trust of India. The Association for Democratic Reforms, an organization that tracks officials' criminal records, said six state lawmakers are facing rape prosecutions and two national parliamentarians are facing charges of crimes against women that fall short of rape.

However, the court did agree to look into the widespread creation of more fast-track courts for accused rapists across the country.
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Re: "She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Postby Yana » Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:04 pm

cooran wrote:So .... as this is a Buddhist discussion board, how would the Buddha's Teachings guide us to consider, say and act over this matter?
Towards ourselves, and towards others?

with metta
Chris


i don't know chris.but i do know mawkish needs to learn biology.

(something tells me i'll probably delete this after i get my 8 hours sleep).
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Re: "She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Postby cooran » Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:16 pm

Yana wrote:
cooran wrote:So .... as this is a Buddhist discussion board, how would the Buddha's Teachings guide us to consider, say and act over this matter?
Towards ourselves, and towards others?

with metta
Chris


i don't know chris.but i do know mawkish needs to learn biology.

(something tells me i'll probably delete this after i get my 8 hours sleep).


Maybe this will show how the Buddha regarded even the person doing the evil deed with love and compassion. And how even a person committing the most horrific crimes (as we all may have done in past lives) can turn away from evil to good.

''Angulimala: A Story of the Power of Compassion
(As told by Ven. Walpola Piyananda Thera in Love in Buddhism)

There was once the son of a Brahmin (the highest "priestly" caste in India) in the court of King Pasenadi of Kosala, whose name was Ahimsaka. He was sent to Taxila for his studies. Ahimsaka was intelligent and obedient to this teacher; therefore he was liked by both the teacher and his wife. This made the other pupils jealous of him. So they went to the teacher and falsely accused Ahimsaka of having an immoral relationship with the teacher’s wife. At first, he did not believe them, but after hearing it a number of times, he thought it was true and vowed to have revenge on Ahimsaka.

He thought that to kill him would reflect badly on him. His rage prompted him to suggest the unthinkable to the young and innocent Ahimsaka. He told his pupil to kill a thousand human beings and to bring the right thumb of each as payment for teaching him. Of course the youngster would not even think of such a thing, so he was banished from the teacher’s house and returned to his parents.

When his father learned why Ahimsaka had been expelled, he became furious with his son, and would hear no reason. On that very day, with the rain pouring down, he ordered Ahimsaka to leave the house. Ahimsaka went to his mother and asked her advice, but she could not go against the will of her husband. Next Ahimsaka went to the house of his betrothed (in accord with the ancient custom in India calling for betrothal of children long before their actual marriage), but when the family learned why Ahimsaka had been turned out of school, they drove him off.

The shame, anger, fear, and despair of Ahimsaka drove him out of his mind. His suffering mind could only recollect the teacher’s order: to collect 1,000 human thumbs. And so he started killing, and as he killed, the thumbs he collected were hung on a tree, but as they were destroyed by crows and vultures, he later wore a garland of the fingers to keep track of the number.

Because of this he came to be known as Angulimala (finger garland) and became the terror of the countryside. The king himself heard about the exploits of Angulimala, and he decided to capture him. When Mantani, Ahimsaka’s mother, heard about the king’s intention, she went to the forest in a desperate bid to save her son. By this time, the chain around the neck of Angulimala had 999 fingers in it, just one finger short of 1,000.

The Buddha; learned of the mother’s attempt to dissuade her son from, and reflected that if he did not intervene, Angulimala, who was on the lookout for the last person to make up the 1,000, would see his mother and might kill her. In that case, he would have to suffer an even longer period for his evil kamma. Out of compassion, the Buddha left for the forest.

Angulimala, after many sleepless days and nights, was very tired and near exhaustion. At the same time, he was very anxious to kill the last person to make up his full quota of 1,000 and so complete his task. He made up his mind to kill the first person he met. As he looked down from his mountain perch, he saw a woman on the road below. He wanted to fulfil his vow to complete the 1,000 thumbs, but as he approached, he saw it was his mother. At the same time, the Buddha was approaching, and Angulimala had just enough presence of mind to decide to kill the wandering monk instead of his mother.

He set out after the Blessed One with his knife raised. But the Buddha kept moving ahead of him. Angulimala just could not catch up with him. Finally, he cried out, "O Bhikkhu, stop, stop!" And the Enlightened One replied, "I have stopped. It is you who have not stopped." Angulimala did not catch the significance of these words, so he asked, "O bhikkhu! Why do you say that you have stopped while I have not?"
The Buddha replied, "I say that I have stopped because I have given up killing all beings. I have given up ill-treating all beings, and have established myself in universal love, patience, and knowledge through reflection. But you have not given up killing or ill treating others and you are not yet established in universal love and patience. Hence, you are the one who has not stopped."

On hearing these words Angulimala was recalled to reality, and thought, these are the words of a wise man. This monk is so very wise and so very brave that he must be the leader of the monks. Indeed, he must be the Enlightened One himself! He must have come here specially to make me see the light. So thinking, he threw away his weapons and asked the Blessed One to admit to the Order of the bhikkhus, which the Buddha did.

When the king and his men came to capture Angulimala, they found him at the monastery of the Buddha. Finding that Angulimala had given up his evil ways and become a bhikkhu, the king and his men agreed to leave him alone. During his stay at the monastery, Angulimala ardently practiced meditation.

Angulimala had no peace of mind because even in his solitary meditation he used to recall memories of his past and the pathetic cries of his unfortunate victims. As a result of his evil kamma, while seeking alms in the streets he would become a target of stray stones and sticks and he would return to the Jetavana monastery with broken head and blood flowing, cut and bruised, to be reminded by the Buddha: "My son Angulimala. You have done away with evil. Have patience. This is the effect of the evil deeds you have committed in the existence. Your evil kamma would have made you suffer through innumerable existences had I not met you."

One morning while going on an almsround in Savatthi, Angulimala heard someone crying out in pain. When he came to know that a pregnant lady was having labor pains and facing difficulty to deliver the child, he reflected, all worldly beings are subject to suffering. Moved by compassion, he reported the suffering of this poor woman to the Buddha who advised him to recite the following words of truth, which later came to be known as Angulimala Paritta. Going to the presence of the suffering woman, he sat on a seat separated from her by a screen, and uttered these words:
Sister, since the day I became an arahat
I have not consciously destroyed
The life of any living beings.
By this truth, may you be well
And may your unborn child be well.

Instantly the woman delivered her child with ease. Both the mother and chid were well and healthy. Even today many resort to this paritta.

Angulimala liked living in solitude and in seclusion. Later he passed away peacefully. As an arahant, he attained parinibbana.

Other bhikkhus asked the Buddha where Angulimala was reborn, and when the Blessed One replied, my son Angulimala has attained parinibbana, they could hardly believe it.

So they asked whether it was possible that such a man who had in fact killed so many people could have attained parinibbana. To this question, the Buddha replied, "Bhikkhus, Angulimala had done much evil because he did not have good friends. But later, he found good friends and with their help and good advice he became steadfast and mindful in practicing the dhamma and meditation. Thus, his evil deeds have been overwhelmed by good kamma and his mind has been completely rid of all defilements."

The Buddha said of Angulimala
"Whose evil deed is obscured by good,
he illumines this world like the
moon freed from a cloud."

The power of love and compassion are stronger than any evil, and are absolute conditions for awakening''.
http://www.sinc.sunysb.edu/Clubs/buddhi ... imala.html

with metta
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Re: "She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Postby Yana » Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:37 pm

Annapurna am crying now.

did you know they used the same iron rod to rape her also.that's how she died you know,it penetrated into her and cut her intestines,damaging inside,

am shaking so bad,that poor child.poor baby.i mean..i'm crying so bad right now because i know i sound so horrible but GOD! think it's so much better that she died!!who would want to live with that..Tuhan..God nobody deserves to live with that memory.

how can people do that you know..i just don't understand!

some people.scum i tell you!

i feel like vomiting,i'm gonna be sick!!!
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Re: "She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Postby Annapurna » Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:41 pm

Yana wrote:
cooran wrote:So .... as this is a Buddhist discussion board, how would the Buddha's Teachings guide us to consider, say and act over this matter?
Towards ourselves, and towards others?

with metta
Chris


i don't know chris.but i do know mawkish needs to learn biology.

(something tells me i'll probably delete this after i get my 8 hours sleep).


I saved it in my quote....biology, yes.
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Re: "She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Postby Annapurna » Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:08 pm

Yana wrote:Annapurna am crying now.

did you know they used the same iron rod to rape her also.that's how she died you know,it penetrated into her and cut her intestines,damaging inside,

am shaking so bad,that poor child.poor baby.i mean..i'm crying so bad right now because i know i sound so horrible but GOD! think it's so much better that she died!!who would want to live with that..Tuhan..God nobody deserves to live with that memory.

how can people do that you know..i just don't understand!

some people.scum i tell you!

i feel like vomiting,i'm gonna be sick!!!


Dear, dear, yes, I know.

I understand your thought that maybe it was better she didn't have to survive so badly crippled...

Look...

http://www.google.de/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=& ... 4169,d.bGE
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Re: "She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Postby Yana » Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:11 pm

i'm sorry chris i know your right but,. :heart:
i don't know if you understand this but...i'd rather be killed than be raped,you know,i don't know if you understand.so,unless angulimala was a rapist, to me,he's better than those 6 scum.I don't like people who hurt other people in any way but rapists..i mean..they are a different breed..i can not compare them to murderers..and i don't know if i am the only one who sees this..but if you can find me an example of a rapist who mended his ways and joined the Buddha,i will be willing to open my heart up.but i doubt it.something about sexual urges and abuse that's seem sooo wrong.even in buddhist standards.

metta
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Re: "She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Postby Khalil Bodhi » Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:20 pm

Okay everyone, let's get :focus:

Please feel free to start a new thread if desired. Metta :heart:
To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas.
-Dhp. 183

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Re: "She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Postby cooran » Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:44 pm

Hello Yana,

Yana said: but if you can find me an example of a rapist who mended his ways and joined the Buddha,i will be willing to open my heart up


This might be of interest:
Josef Fritzl embraces Buddhism
Published: Friday, January 30, 2009, 11:24 [IST]
London, Jan 30 (ANI): Austrian incest fiend Josef Fritzl, who caged his teenage daughter in a cellar and repeatedly raped her over 24 years, has converted to Buddhism.
The 74-year-old has also invited criminal psychologists to study his warped mind.
Fritzl first came to know about the religion - which focuses on personal spiritual development - during a family holiday in Thailand.
But he only recently became a devoted follower while in jail, reports the Sun.
He is currently awaiting trial on March 16 for murder, rape, slavery, incest, imprisonment and abuse.
But he hopes to be reincarnated as a decent person in his next life if he can help stop other weirdos copying his crimes.
He wants experts to quiz him to work out the root of his evil.
Fritzl told his lawyer: "They should look at what makes me tick and learn from it to stop anything like this happening again."
Forensic psychiatrist Professor Reinhardt Haller said: "It would be foolish to refuse this offer."
Fritzl imprisoned his daughter Elisabeth for 24 years in a dungeon under the family home in Amstetten and used her as his sex slave.
She bore seven children by her dad - one of whom he is accused of killing by failing to get medical help when the boy was born with breathing difficulties. An eighth child was miscarried. (ANI)
http://news.oneindia.in/2009/01/30/jose ... dhism.html

e European tabloids are abuzz with the news that Josef Fritzl, who infamously raped his daughter, imprisoning her in his cellar for 24 years, has “converted to Buddhism.” The Sun (absolutely not to be confused with the Shambhala Sun!) reports that Fritzl “hopes to be reincarnated as a decent person in his next life if he can help stop other weirdos copying his crimes,” and “wants experts to quiz him to work out the root of his evil.”
The monstrosity of his crimes can, of course, not be denied, and people are expected to “take sides.” One person I know even told me “you shouldn’t even report on that. He’s the sickest @#&*%@ on the planet.” On the other hand, the mighty Konchog Norbu reminds us that things aren’t so clear-cut, saying, simply, “It worked for Angulimala.” And we all know the great work and change that the dharma has affected in so many prisoners’ lives.
http://shambhalasun.com/sunspace/?p=5587

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Re: "She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Postby Annapurna » Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:46 pm

Yana wrote:i'm sorry chris i know your right but,. :heart:
i don't know if you understand this but...i'd rather be killed than be raped,you know,i don't know if you understand.so,unless angulimala was a rapist, to me,he's better than those 6 scum.I don't like people who hurt other people in any way but rapists..i mean..they are a different breed..i can not compare them to murderers..and i don't know if i am the only one who sees this..but if you can find me an example of a rapist who mended his ways and joined the Buddha,i will be willing to open my heart up.but i doubt it.something about sexual urges and abuse that's seem sooo wrong.even in buddhist standards.

metta


Well, Angulimala was of high birth, and given to a master, to teach him, but this master was evil and ordered him to kill 1000 people, a thing that wouldn't have occured to Angulimala himself, -he only thought he had to obey his master....

These men are different from Angulimala, and who knows if they will ever have insight into what they did,as Angulimala realized it...but who knows.

I have studied Ted Bundy for a while, a rapist and serial killer.

I think, in contrast to other people who believe he never regretted, that he did regret. He is crying in his last interview, less than 24 hours before his own death.

I can't prove it, but I feel it.

I also think that these rapists might ...also develop insight into the dimension of how they failed this woman... and her friend, including their families, and ultimately, themselves, when one thinks of the karma they will inherit, which, on a deeper level, doesn't make a worldly punishment unnecessary, but helps us to distance ourselves from the urge to interfere in violent ways ourselves.

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Re: "She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Postby Annapurna » Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:49 pm

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Re: "She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Postby Annapurna » Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:16 am

Annapurna: Expect the nature of man and better be cautious.


Mawkish: Not all men are rapists.


Annapurna: Obviously. I also didn't say they are.


Mawkish: Okay, why associate this 'nature of man' with the 'nature of a rapist'? I suspect, in fact, that the majority of men, even the vast majority of men, would never even imagine themselves in a situation where they would commit such an abhorrent act. I suspect the vast majority of men are strongly opposed to rape.

There are also, of course, cases of men suffering sexual abuse at the hands of women. To suggest that one should be cautious of the 'nature of man' is plainly, simply, wrong.

I thought it was worth saying.


I'm sorry, Mawkish,

but yesterday I forgot to mention THE most crucial thing about the "nature of man", that is relevant for this topic.

He is stronger.

So, how can it be "plainly, simply wrong to suggest women better expect the nature of man and are cautious"?

I say you are wrong if you deny caution is recommendable.

It flies in the face of everything that law enforcement and parents caution vulnerable people to do.
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Re: "She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Postby Yana » Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:42 am

An update : Delhi gang-rape case in court as boyfriend speaks

http://au.news.yahoo.com/queensland/a/- ... peaks-out/

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Re: "She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Postby Annapurna » Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:03 am

My son fought bravely. He tried until the very end to save the girl and I am proud of him."


Tears.
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Re: "She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Postby Yana » Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:38 am

Annapurna wrote:
My son fought bravely. He tried until the very end to save the girl and I am proud of him."


Tears.


:heart: :hug: I hope he can continue with his life now.Shattered and stolen away from him from such a young age.

Am very proud of him. May he be free from suffering and find true happiness :candle:
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Re: "She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Postby Annapurna » Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:44 pm

It's so tragic...he had a bad feeling about the bus and the drivers, but his girlfriend thought she needed to keep a schedule...

Isn't that horrible...?

What if she had missed a date, usually no big deal...at least compared to this...

I am really curious what the verdict will be.
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Re: "She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Postby Ben » Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:58 pm

Mawkish1983 wrote:
There are also, of course, cases of men suffering sexual abuse at the hands of women. To suggest that one should be cautious of the 'nature of man' is plainly, simply, wrong.

I thought it was worth saying.


Thanks Mawkish for saying that.
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Re: "She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Postby Annapurna » Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:12 pm

Yana wrote:
Annapurna wrote:
My son fought bravely. He tried until the very end to save the girl and I am proud of him."


Tears.


:heart: :hug: I hope he can continue with his life now.Shattered and stolen away from him from such a young age.

Am very proud of him. May he be free from suffering and find true happiness :candle:


I am proud of him too. They broke one of his legs, imagine....probably with the iron bar. so he couldn't even get up anymore. So brutal!! I find it especially hard to accept that so many people didn't stop and at least reassured them they'd get help!

I sometimes can't understand mankind.... this fear to be brave, this lack of compassion, these huge egos that get so easily bruised ...selfishness... pride, the need to be right and to domineer, anger about other opinions, the insensitivity in delicate issues... cheap shots at others one feels an aversion to...it's all so ignorant and so far away from the Dhamma....

And it will never change...

Never.

That is a depressing thought, but if the Buddha was able to overcome it, we have to as well.
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