"She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
User avatar
Pax
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:11 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 6
Location: Illinois

Re: "She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Postby Pax » Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:00 pm

Not all men are rapists... but most rapists are male.

As a female I remain cautious and guarded around males unknown to me, especially younger ones in groups.

User avatar
Annapurna
Posts: 2639
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:04 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: "She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Postby Annapurna » Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:54 pm

Pax wrote:Not all men are rapists... but most rapists are male.

As a female I remain cautious and guarded around males unknown to me, especially younger ones in groups.


Thank you, exactly my opinion too.

My father warned me a lot, basically each night when I went out. As a doctor, he had treated rape victims and you can imagine how concerned a father is when he knows his own daughter might encounter bad company...

Anyhow, I was still too trusting and came into jeopardy and couldn't prevent getting attacked.

The 2 attempted rapes I escaped were from men I knew and trusted, that I had expected protection of !

Many rapes occur between people who know each other, date rapes, etc.
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

User avatar
manas
Posts: 2192
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:04 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 6
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: "She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Postby manas » Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:13 pm

The idea of raping anyone, is so abhorrent and distant from my mind, that my reaction is still horror and a sad, numb kind of shock, every time I hear of another report of rape.

As a man, I wanted to point out that most men would not commit this abhorrent act, even if they thought there would be no consequence. Yes there are more male sex offenders than female per se, but we must not see it as a characteristic of manhood. I would argue, it is just the opposite. Those who commit rape are not men in the true sense of the word; I would call them messed up, angry, oversized boys, (and sometimes, virtually two-legged animals), but not men.

:anjali:

User avatar
cooran
Posts: 7801
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: "She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Postby cooran » Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:33 pm

manas said: I wanted to point out that most men would not commit this abhorrent act, even if they thought there would be no consequence.

Well said, manas!

Having worked in Emergency Departments at hospitals over the years, and also for over 10 years with homeless women in an inner city area, I was frequently involved in counselling women who had been raped, treated like trash, disprespected by a small proportion of men. But I always found that the majority of males were just as distressed over what had happened as the female relatives and workers involved.


with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

User avatar
Mr Man
Posts: 1380
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:42 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1006

Re: "She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Postby Mr Man » Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:36 pm

Within Man there are undoubtedly strong passions. Wouldn't it be wise for all of us to remain cautious?

User avatar
Annapurna
Posts: 2639
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:04 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: "She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Postby Annapurna » Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:38 pm

Manas, thank you for sharing your thoughts.

I understand your feelings ...I can't imagine that any man in my family would rape, violence just doesn't occur. Women are beloved and respected in my family, I'd even say, *adored*, if it wasn't such a silly word, and the men are exemplary in being gentleman-like.

The mere idea they would rape is ridiculous, out of the question.

I am afraid this has made me very, very trusting and my trust was only disappointed very rarely.

Most men seem very protective of me and supportive.

But I sometimes heard terribles stories from school mates and friends.

I heard from several girls that their own fathers had raped them regularly from as early on as 14. . They told me themselves and cried.

It was a notion so alien to me I was speechless.

Several women I know got date-raped and worse.

We know what happens in wars...

Here is a study that might be sobering:

http://www.google.de/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=& ... 4169,d.bGE
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

User avatar
Annapurna
Posts: 2639
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:04 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: "She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Postby Annapurna » Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:49 pm

Mr Man wrote:Within Man there are undoubtedly strong passions. Wouldn't it be wise for all of us to remain cautious?


Yes, Mr.Man. I think this would be wise for all of us.

Caution is wise.

Neither paranoid, nor naive.

Just aware of what mankind is capable of, the complete range from very sweet to very evil.
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

User avatar
Modus.Ponens
Posts: 2145
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:38 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1
Location: Gallifrey

Re: "She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Postby Modus.Ponens » Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:47 pm

Pax wrote:Not all men are rapists... but most rapists are male.

As a female I remain cautious and guarded around males unknown to me, especially younger ones in groups.


Most rapists are male, yes.

But please replace the word "males" by "blacks" in the sentence in italic and reflect on what it might mean to a black person to hear that. This goes for all women comenting here. Mawkish defending that not all men are rapists was met with intransigence. It's time to realise that men have the right not to be discriminated too.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

User avatar
Mr Man
Posts: 1380
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:42 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1006

Re: "She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Postby Mr Man » Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:17 pm

Modus.Ponens wrote:. Mawkish defending that not all men are rapists was met with intransigence.
But to keep things accurate no one has said "all men are rapists" so where is the intransigence?

User avatar
Modus.Ponens
Posts: 2145
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:38 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1
Location: Gallifrey

Re: "She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Postby Modus.Ponens » Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:36 pm

Maybe oposition would be a better word for conveing the meaning I wanted to. I'm not an english native speaker, so these subtleties elude me sometimes.

The thing I was refering to was when Mawkish said "Just thought it was worth saying" and other members denied it was worth saying what he said.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

User avatar
manas
Posts: 2192
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:04 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 6
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: "She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Postby manas » Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:37 pm

Mr Man wrote:Within Man there are undoubtedly strong passions. Wouldn't it be wise for all of us to remain cautious?


When you say 'Man' are you referring to just menfolk, or to Humanity as a whole?

SamKR
Posts: 781
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:33 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 6
Location: Virginia

Re: "She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Postby SamKR » Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:38 pm

Mr Man wrote:Within Man there are undoubtedly strong passions. Wouldn't it be wise for all of us to remain cautious?

Yes. Men and Women all should remain cautious of others (especially Men). Why? Because my impression is that Men are more impulsive than women; I guess that has something to do with biology.
Cautious but with Metta, of course.
Last edited by SamKR on Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
daverupa
Posts: 4533
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:58 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1001

Re: "She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Postby daverupa » Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:45 pm

Mr Man wrote:
Modus.Ponens wrote:. Mawkish defending that not all men are rapists was met with intransigence.
But to keep things accurate no one has said "all men are rapists" so where is the intransigence?


All men are potential rapists, probably, is the idea of note.

It may be arguable, but it's selected for via operant conditioning to be the safest way to walk through a city. Sexual dimorphism suggests that forced sex probably has a long pedigree in human history.

The Gift of Fear, by Gavin de Becker, is recommended reading.
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

User avatar
Mr Man
Posts: 1380
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:42 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1006

Re: "She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Postby Mr Man » Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:59 pm

manas wrote:
Mr Man wrote:Within Man there are undoubtedly strong passions. Wouldn't it be wise for all of us to remain cautious?


When you say 'Man' are you referring to just menfolk, or to Humanity as a whole?


When I said "Man" I meant humanity but I don't think that is how it was originally used in the thread.

User avatar
Billymac29
Posts: 288
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:07 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1006
Location: New Jersey

Re: "She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Postby Billymac29 » Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:06 am

The thing I was refering to was when Mawkish said "Just thought it was worth saying" and other members denied it was worth saying what he said.

Folks... First of all it's factual data in the US ----> There are more men rapist than women by a landslide...period. Look it up if you don't believe me.. In my state of New Jersey the crime data shows over 90% of rapes were committed by males.



To suggest that one should be cautious of the 'nature of man' is plainly, simply, wrong.

No Mawkish1983 this is incorrect.. Read up on your english. "nature of man" is perfectly acceptable in the way it was used by annapurna.


may all be well
"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"

User avatar
Modus.Ponens
Posts: 2145
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:38 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1
Location: Gallifrey

Re: "She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Postby Modus.Ponens » Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:58 am

Billymac29 wrote:
The thing I was refering to was when Mawkish said "Just thought it was worth saying" and other members denied it was worth saying what he said.

Folks... First of all it's factual data in the US ----> There are more men rapist than women by a landslide...period. Look it up if you don't believe me.. In my state of New Jersey the crime data shows over 90% of rapes were committed by males.



To suggest that one should be cautious of the 'nature of man' is plainly, simply, wrong.

No Mawkish1983 this is incorrect.. Read up on your english. "nature of man" is perfectly acceptable in the way it was used by annapurna.


may all be well


I thought it was more than 90 %.

Maybe Annapurna should clarify if she meant "nature of men" or "nature of Man". From context it seems like it's the first one and that is more discrimination.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

User avatar
LonesomeYogurt
Posts: 900
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:24 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1006
Location: America

Re: "She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:10 am

Modus.Ponens wrote:It's time to realise that men have the right not to be discriminated too.

And it's time for a lot of men to realize that women have the right not to be raped. Until that happens, I'm not going to be too grumpy if "good guys" get a little unneeded flack due to the last 200,000 years of male oppression over women.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.

User avatar
Modus.Ponens
Posts: 2145
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:38 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1
Location: Gallifrey

Re: "She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Postby Modus.Ponens » Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:23 am

Alright. If even men, who are sensible members in this forum, don't mind discrimination, I'm not going to say anything more (unless, of course, if I'm personaly atacked). :shrug:
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

User avatar
LonesomeYogurt
Posts: 900
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:24 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1006
Location: America

Re: "She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:32 am

Modus.Ponens wrote:Alright. If even men, who are sensible members in this forum, don't mind discrimination, I'm not going to say anything more (unless, of course, if I'm personaly atacked). :shrug:

I hope you don't think that I am endorsing discrimination; I just think that we, as men, need to keep a sense of perspective, understanding why women are often quick to judge us.

I know what it's like to be hated for being a man, and although I understand why a lot of women feel that way, you're right that it's still a painful thing. We just need to remember that the accusations of angry, hurt women are not nearly as shameful or gross as the behaviors that led to their feeling such a way.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.

User avatar
Annapurna
Posts: 2639
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:04 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: "She wanted to LIVE" R.I.P. "Braveheart"

Postby Annapurna » Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:05 am

Ok, guys,

I feel unfairly attacked
.


A true Buddhist will feel compassion with me and will want to keep suffering from me and, so I hope I have everybody's attention for this:

The irony of this debate is, that I get attacked for something I didn't even say.

I am getting attacked with something that was taken out of context and thus distorted.

Violence against others can have many faces.

Sometimes it's rape, and sometimes, it's distorting of what others said.

It's always violence, however subtle, but don't blame me.


We are practising Buddhists and I am appealing to all of you now, to give me the courtesy of right speech, and the good will to acknowledge what I really said, before a sentence was singled out and used to give this thread another focus, away from a rape victim that we are mourning, towards a question that should be agreed upon in any discussion amongst intelligently debating Buddhists:

We don't generalize and so we don't see all men as rapists. That is agreed upon as a minimum level of discussion, as a self understood reality.

We all know it, -so let's calm down and get over this now and proceed on a higher level, I honestly wouldn't even react if some guy said that some women killed their newborn infants, -what's this got to do with me? I won't put on shoes that don't fit.

And to insinuate that any of our members, me in this case, is on such a low level of thinking as to generalize is not kind, it is offensive, I hope you understand I do not accept this gift in form of an insult, it stays with you.

Here is my original post and please give me the kindness and good will to see what I really wrote in context:

Seriously, I too am afraid.

Know the nature of the beast....that's all I say.

If you know, that some men are willing and able to rape, and that they don't only live in big cities, then you better know the deal.

After the horse ran away it's too late to lock the stable, caution is the mother of the procellain box.

You don't want an elefant trampling around in your temple, would you?

So make sure he can't get in.

I escaped 2 attempted rapes, each time I was in mortal fear, each time I was saved by incredibly fortunate circumstances, but the unspeakable shock I went though has marked me.

I've become even more cautious since.

The Buddha said: "What do you expect?"

Expect the nature of man and better be cautious.



What is wrong with it when parents teach their daughters caution of a man's strength and sexdrive?

Nothing.

What is wrong with being stronger and having a sex drive?

Nothing.

There would be something wrong with denying certain unpleasant facets of reality, however, and there would be something wrong with taking things personally that are generally spoken.
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/


Return to “Lounge”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests