Touching the ultimate reality and navigating through samsara

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Touching the ultimate reality and navigating through samsara

Postby nrose619 » Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:44 am

Hello all :D I have recently been reflecting on the doctrine of not-self and see that understanding soullessness reveals the illusion of the ego. When I came to this realization things were in a different light. Nobody was higher than someone else on this sort of egotistical ladder constructed by modern society. Today I was reflecting on not-self and impermanence and remember experiencing bliss and just having a big smile on my face the more I realized that these concepts are in actuality, reality. :D There was no me or he or she. When I experienced this moment of bliss I realized that even though I was still living the relative truth/reality I may have also touched the ultimate reality as explained in the doctrine of the Two Truths. However the problem I encountered was that after this experience I had to speak to friends who have not yet realized there is no self and still are immersed in the illusory world of "self". It discomforts me because many times I feel alone because of this and often have a higher tendency to get sucked back into the relative truths/reality. If anyone has some extra insight into the experience I described, more information on the two truths, or any advice please comment! :anjali:

All the best,
-Nick
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When it has passed,
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to hold on to the image of the bird."
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Re: Touching the ultimate reality and navigating through samsara

Postby Ben » Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:34 am

Relax, and let your actions speak for you.
"One cannot step twice into the same river, nor can one grasp any mortal substance in a stable condition, but it scatters and again gathers; it forms and dissolves, and approaches and departs."

- Hereclitus


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Re: Touching the ultimate reality and navigating through samsara

Postby Digity » Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:11 am

nrose619 wrote:However the problem I encountered was that after this experience I had to speak to friends who have not yet realized there is no self and still are immersed in the illusory world of "self". It discomforts me because many times I feel alone because of this and often have a higher tendency to get sucked back into the relative truths/reality. If anyone has some extra insight into the experience I described, more information on the two truths, or any advice please comment! :anjali:


If you can't be amongst people whose views differ from the Dhamma and this influences your views then it means your understanding of the Dhamma is still weak and needs to be further developed. Also, be careful about developing conceit, because you have a notion of "non-self" and your friends don't...don't think this makes you better than them. If you think this way it's a misuse of the teachings.
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Re: Touching the ultimate reality and navigating through samsara

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:01 am

nrose619 wrote: any advice please comment!

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=9148&p=141527&#p141527
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Touching the ultimate reality and navigating through samsara

Postby Bakmoon » Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:55 pm

nrose619 wrote:Hello all :D I have recently been reflecting on the doctrine of not-self and see that understanding soullessness reveals the illusion of the ego. When I came to this realization things were in a different light. Nobody was higher than someone else on this sort of egotistical ladder constructed by modern society. Today I was reflecting on not-self and impermanence and remember experiencing bliss and just having a big smile on my face the more I realized that these concepts are in actuality, reality. :D There was no me or he or she. When I experienced this moment of bliss I realized that even though I was still living the relative truth/reality I may have also touched the ultimate reality as explained in the doctrine of the Two Truths. However the problem I encountered was that after this experience I had to speak to friends who have not yet realized there is no self and still are immersed in the illusory world of "self". It discomforts me because many times I feel alone because of this and often have a higher tendency to get sucked back into the relative truths/reality. If anyone has some extra insight into the experience I described, more information on the two truths, or any advice please comment! :anjali:

All the best,
-Nick


One thing to keep in mind is that the teaching of Anatta is very profound, and although reflecting on these teachings is good, we should try to avoid a conceptual understanding of Anatta and similar teachings. A true understanding of Anatta comes from meditation, and leads to disenchantment, whereas thinking about it too philosophically can lead to a lot of unnecessary confusion. Just make sure that you balance out your reflection with plenty of meditation.
The non-doing of any evil,
The performance of what's skillful,
The cleansing of one's own mind:
This is the Buddhas' teaching.
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Re: Touching the ultimate reality and navigating through samsara

Postby kirk5a » Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:56 pm

I think it is very interesting to consider what MN 106 says about "this is empty of self" contemplation.

"Then again, the disciple of the noble ones, having gone into the wilderness, to the root of a tree, or into an empty dwelling, considers this: 'This is empty of self or of anything pertaining to self.' Practicing & frequently abiding in this way, his mind acquires confidence in that dimension. There being full confidence, he either attains the dimension of nothingness now or else is committed to discernment. With the break-up of the body, after death, it's possible that this leading-on consciousness of his will go to the dimension of nothingness. This is declared to be the second practice conducive to the dimension of nothingness.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

A few things to note in that sutta:

1) This "empty of self" contemplation leads to the dimension of nothingness. "Or else" one is committed to discernment.

2) The dimension of nothingness is within the scope of that which can be the basis of "identity."

3) The dimension of nothingness is a "perception."

So before I supposed anything to be "touching ultimate reality" I'd want to be certain I understood (in direct experiential comprehension) everything said in that sutta. This is very difficult terrain.
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
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Re: Touching the ultimate reality and navigating through samsara

Postby SarathW » Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:47 pm

Hi Kirk
Is it correct to say that meditator next moving to Nither Perception Nor Non perception.
So he has to come out of Dhyana and start completing on Anatta in terms of impermanence and unsatisfactoryness of the nature of things.
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