Dhammapada verse meaning

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and scriptures.
Post Reply
Amata
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:44 pm

Dhammapada verse meaning

Post by Amata »

Chapter 5, verse 62 of the Dhammapada:
'These children belong to me, and this wealth belongs to me,' with such thoughts a fool is tormented. They themselves do not belong to themselves; how much less children and wealth?

I was wondering who, it is generally thought, the Buddha was thinking that they themselves belong to?
User avatar
Cittasanto
Posts: 6646
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin
Contact:

Re: Dhammapada verse meaning

Post by Cittasanto »

Amata wrote:Chapter 5, verse 62 of the Dhammapada:
'These children belong to me, and this wealth belongs to me,' with such thoughts a fool is tormented. They themselves do not belong to themselves; how much less children and wealth?

I was wondering who, it is generally thought, the Buddha was thinking that they themselves belong to?
This is talking about non-self so no-one.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
User avatar
SDC
Posts: 9058
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:08 pm

Re: Dhammapada verse meaning

Post by SDC »

Cittasanto wrote:This is talking about non-self so no-one.
This.^^

He was drawing attention to the irony of a "self" having external objects that belong to it, when in the first place, this thing that is seen as "self" is a complex concept composed of internal and external objects that can not be fully controlled. And how what is not fully under control be declared as being "mine" let alone external objects not physically attached to it?

I love trying to explain this stuff, but in the end I'm not sure if I ever make sense. :smile:
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
User avatar
Cittasanto
Posts: 6646
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin
Contact:

Re: Dhammapada verse meaning

Post by Cittasanto »

SDC wrote:
Cittasanto wrote:This is talking about non-self so no-one.
This.^^

He was drawing attention to the irony of a "self" having external objects that belong to it, when in the first place, this thing that is seen as "self" is a complex concept composed of internal and external objects that can not be fully controlled. And how what is not fully under control be declared as being "mine" let alone external objects not physically attached to it?

I love trying to explain this stuff, but in the end I'm not sure if I ever make sense. :smile:
one question, what does the ^^ mean?
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
User avatar
SDC
Posts: 9058
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:08 pm

Re: Dhammapada verse meaning

Post by SDC »

It's me pointing at your post saying that I agree with it
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
Mawkish1983
Posts: 1285
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:46 am
Location: Essex, UK

Re: Dhammapada verse meaning

Post by Mawkish1983 »

SDC wrote:
Cittasanto wrote:This is talking about non-self so no-one.
He was drawing attention to the irony of a "self" having external objects that belong to it, when in the first place, this thing that is seen as "self" is a complex concept composed of internal and external objects that can not be fully controlled. And how what is not fully under control be declared as being "mine" let alone external objects not physically attached to it? I'm not sure if I ever make sense.
Made sense to me, and I think I agree with this interpretation.

To paraphrase a wise philosopher, it's like two fleas arguing over who owns the dog.

Well, that analogy doesn't quite work, how about:

A computer game character being programmed to be [or at least, appear] upset about losing in-game money?
User avatar
Cittasanto
Posts: 6646
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin
Contact:

Re: Dhammapada verse meaning

Post by Cittasanto »

SDC wrote:It's me pointing at your post saying that I agree with it
right :) Thought you were but not sure if you were replying or agreeing, was a little confused :rolleye:
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
User avatar
SDC
Posts: 9058
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:08 pm

Re: Dhammapada verse meaning

Post by SDC »

Cittasanto wrote:right :) Thought you were but not sure if you were replying or agreeing, was a little confused :rolleye:
Its done often on another forum I post on. I sprung it with no warning. :tongue:
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
User avatar
SDC
Posts: 9058
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:08 pm

Re: Dhammapada verse meaning

Post by SDC »

Mawkish1983 wrote:Made sense to me, and I think I agree with this interpretation.
Nice!
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
sarahypp
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:38 pm

Re: Dhammapada verse meaning

Post by sarahypp »

Very nice verse from the Dhammapada, thank you for sharing.

It does reflect our strong sense of self that we always identify things as 'mine' lol..

Can anyone share with us on the antidote to this? How does one lessen one's possessiveness?
Post Reply