Protestant Buddhism in Asia and the West

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism

User avatar
Aloka
Posts: 3843
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: Protestant Buddhism in Asia and the West

Postby Aloka » Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:48 am

Hi gavesako,

I've only just noticed this thread - and I think that the Vajrayana group Aro gTer which the guy who wrote the blog in your first post belongs to, used to be on a cult list .

I am an “apprentice” in the Aro lineage. Aro is a lineage within the Nyingma tradition of Tibetan Buddhism

http://approachingaro.org/



Kind regards,

Aloka

User avatar
gavesako
Posts: 1416
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:16 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1
Location: England

Re: Protestant Buddhism in Asia and the West

Postby gavesako » Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:06 am

I don't know anything about the author of the Meaningness blog and I don't think that it's his original thought either: he merely compiled some references from books recently published on this subject, in particular "Buddhist Modernism" which has been dealt with extensively by other scholars as well. Whatever conclusions he personally draws from it (the need for more tantric Buddhism in the West) is his business, not something I would endorse.
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

ajahnchah.org - Teachings of Ajahn Chah in many languages
Dhammatube - Videos on Buddhist practice
Ancient Buddhist Texts - Translations and history of Pali texts

gendun
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:49 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1006
Location: Guildford UK

Re: Protestant Buddhism in Asia and the West

Postby gendun » Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:58 am

Aloka wrote:Hi gavesako,

I've only just noticed this thread - and I think that the Vajrayana group Aro gTer which the guy who wrote the blog in your first post belongs to, used to be on a cult list .

I am an “apprentice” in the Aro lineage. Aro is a lineage within the Nyingma tradition of Tibetan Buddhism

http://approachingaro.org/



Kind regards,

Aloka


Just noticed this and thought it worth going off topic to point out that the key words here are " used to be". The Aro were declared a cult by a group within the old E Sangha site.
Their authenticity is now accepted pretty much universally, including by Malcolm ( formerly Namdrol ).
I apologise for the detour.

:anjali:
Gendun P. Brownlow.
Karma Kagyu student.

plwk
Posts: 1172
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:14 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 6
Contact:

Re: Protestant Buddhism in Asia and the West

Postby plwk » Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:15 am

Just noticed this and thought it worth going off topic to point out that the key words here are " used to be". The Aro were declared a cult by a group within the old E Sangha site.
Their authenticity is now accepted pretty much universally, including by Malcolm ( formerly Namdrol ).
I apologise for the detour.

:anjali:
And the evidence for your claim on this is? Perhaps you would like to expand on this at the sister site as this site is dedicated to Theravada based teaching and issues.
Last edited by plwk on Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Bhikkhus, if you develop and make much this one thing,
it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction.
What is it? It is recollecting the Enlightened One.
If this single thing is recollected and made much,
it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction.

Anguttara-Nikaya: Ekanipata: Ekadhammapali: Pañhamavagga
VSM VMM WBB TBHT WTBT My Page

User avatar
Aloka
Posts: 3843
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: Protestant Buddhism in Asia and the West

Postby Aloka » Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:31 am

gendun wrote:
Aloka wrote:Hi gavesako,

I've only just noticed this thread - and I think that the Vajrayana group Aro gTer which the guy who wrote the blog in your first post belongs to, used to be on a cult list .

I am an “apprentice” in the Aro lineage. Aro is a lineage within the Nyingma tradition of Tibetan Buddhism

http://approachingaro.org/



Kind regards,

Aloka


Just noticed this and thought it worth going off topic to point out that the key words here are " used to be". The Aro were declared a cult by a group within the old E Sangha site.
Their authenticity is now accepted pretty much universally, including by Malcolm ( formerly Namdrol ).
I apologise for the detour.

:anjali:



I saw Aro Ter listed as a cult group somewhere other than E-sangha.

I wasn't very familiar with E-sangha when it was on the internet....nor with "Malcolm/Namdrol" who appears to be regarded as the supreme expert on all things Buddhist. :shrug:

Anyway.. :focus:


.

gendun
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:49 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1006
Location: Guildford UK

Re: Protestant Buddhism in Asia and the West

Postby gendun » Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:46 am

Due to the nature of the internet once a person or group has been blacklisted that list tends to get picked up and repeated widely as "received knowledge".
In the case of the Aro a number of senior Tibetan teachers ( this is easily verified ) came forward to endorse the validity of the Aro..whereupon a number of previous opponents ( including " Namdrol " ) made public apologies.

Btw Malcolm ( Namdrol ) no longer identifies himself as a Buddhist.

We are now way off topic.

:focus:
Gendun P. Brownlow.
Karma Kagyu student.

User avatar
Aloka
Posts: 3843
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: Protestant Buddhism in Asia and the West

Postby Aloka » Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:55 am

gendun wrote:Btw Malcolm ( Namdrol ) no longer identifies himself as a Buddhist.



Yet after leaving Dharma Wheel I notice he is a key figure at the new Vajracakra forum for Tibetan Buddhism.

http://www.vajracakra.com/index.php


:)

gendun
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:49 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1006
Location: Guildford UK

Re: Protestant Buddhism in Asia and the West

Postby gendun » Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:16 pm

Vajracakra was set up by Malcolm and a group of students of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu including Dechen Norbu who broke away from Dharma Wheel over the issue of whether it was neccessary to be a Buddhist in order to practice Dzogchen.
Malcolm and others thought not, and so Vajracakra.com was born. However they opened it to Tibetan Buddhists too, in that they are not excluded.

My apologies to the forum mods. I was unsure whether to respond or not as this is all off topic.
Gendun P. Brownlow.
Karma Kagyu student.

User avatar
Ben
Site Admin
Posts: 16367
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1001
Location: Land of the sleeping gods
Contact:

Re: Protestant Buddhism in Asia and the West

Postby Ben » Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:39 pm

gendun wrote:Vajracakra was set up by Malcolm and a group of students of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu including Dechen Norbu who broke away from Dharma Wheel over the issue of whether it was neccessary to be a Buddhist in order to practice Dzogchen.
Malcolm and others thought not, and so Vajracakra.com was born. However they opened it to Tibetan Buddhists too, in that they are not excluded.

My apologies to the forum mods. I was unsure whether to respond or not as this is all off topic.


Thanks Gendun and no worries.
But if others wish to discuss this particular issue further, please feel free to start a new topic.
kind regards,

Ben
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR
Buddhist Life Stories of Australia
e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com

mfesmith
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:47 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 6

Re: Protestant Buddhism in Asia and the West

Postby mfesmith » Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:19 pm

gendun wrote:Vajracakra was set up by Malcolm and a group of students of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu including Dechen Norbu who broke away from Dharma Wheel over the issue of whether it was neccessary to be a Buddhist in order to practice Dzogchen.
Malcolm and others thought not, and so Vajracakra.com was born.


No, Vajracakra was etablished in order to provide a forum for the exclusive discussion of Vajrayāna Dharma. Why? Because just as conversations about Theravada and Zen have proven to flourish more abundantly in dedicated forums, it is our feeling that the same would occur with Vajrayāna, given the chance.

We can see already on Dharmawheel that the conversation is naturally settling into a more Pan-mahāyāna tone since the establishment of Vajracakra.

The issue of whether or not one needs to be a "Buddhist" in order to practice Buddhadharma is completely separate and does not apply only to Dzogchen.

plwk
Posts: 1172
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:14 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 6
Contact:

Re: Protestant Buddhism in Asia and the West

Postby plwk » Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:55 pm

So malcolm, as gendun suggested earlier: that you accepted the authenticity of Aro and apologised?
Bhikkhus, if you develop and make much this one thing,
it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction.
What is it? It is recollecting the Enlightened One.
If this single thing is recollected and made much,
it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction.

Anguttara-Nikaya: Ekanipata: Ekadhammapali: Pañhamavagga
VSM VMM WBB TBHT WTBT My Page

gendun
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:49 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1006
Location: Guildford UK

Re: Protestant Buddhism in Asia and the West

Postby gendun » Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:57 pm

mfesmith wrote:
gendun wrote:Vajracakra was set up by Malcolm and a group of students of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu including Dechen Norbu who broke away from Dharma Wheel over the issue of whether it was neccessary to be a Buddhist in order to practice Dzogchen.
Malcolm and others thought not, and so Vajracakra.com was born.


No, Vajracakra was etablished in order to provide a forum for the exclusive discussion of Vajrayāna Dharma. Why? Because just as conversations about Theravada and Zen have proven to flourish more abundantly in dedicated forums, it is our feeling that the same would occur with Vajrayāna, given the chance.

We can see already on Dharmawheel that the conversation is naturally settling into a more Pan-mahāyāna tone since the establishment of Vajracakra.

The issue of whether or not one needs to be a "Buddhist" in order to practice Buddhadharma is completely separate and does not apply only to Dzogchen.



I stand corrected, thank you Malcolm.
Once more the dangers of received knowledge.
Gendun P. Brownlow.
Karma Kagyu student.

mfesmith
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:47 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 6

Re: Protestant Buddhism in Asia and the West

Postby mfesmith » Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:30 pm

plwk wrote:So malcolm, as gendun suggested earlier: that you accepted the authenticity of Aro and apologised?


I apologized for hurting people's feelings without need, that was as far as it went.

weatherweather
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:37 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1007

Re: Protestant Buddhism in Asia and the West

Postby weatherweather » Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:01 am

lorem ipsum lorem ipsumlorem ipsumlorem ipsum
Last edited by weatherweather on Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:59 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Mr Man
Posts: 1385
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:42 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1006

Re: Protestant Buddhism in Asia and the West

Postby Mr Man » Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:36 am

Thanks for the post weatherweather. It resonates. It is hard to see how we can collectively move aside from this lava like flow that you describe. It seems like all solutions are immediately engulfed by the cause.


Return to “General Theravāda discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 5 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine